All afterlives reside in the Shadowlands, we just visit a very small part of the service area…
If you imagine the Shadowlands as DisneyWorld, the places we go to are the hidden areas where the help works.
Dolly and Dot are my best friends… but my sister certainly isn’t because I chewed out her throat before either of us opened our eyes.
…that was a choice, narratively. Hopefully a fluke rather than a regular occurrence.
3 Likes
I mean, that’s great and all, but allow me to quote you to you.
1 Like
When I talk about wanting Sylvanas to be right I’m specifically talking about this:
“You are not Garrosh Hellscream. Why do you want to throw the Horde into the meat grinder again?”
Sylvanas’s eyes did not waver, even in the face of his rage. “If I dedicated myself to peace with the Alliance, would it last a year?”
“Yes,” Saurfang said curtly.
“How about two years? Five? Ten? Fifty?”
Saurfang felt the trap closing in on him, and he did not like it. “We fought side‐by‐side against the Burning Legion. That creates bonds that are not easily broken.”
“Time breaks every bond.” Sylvanas leaned across the table. Her words flew like arrows. “What do you believe? Will peace last five years or fifty?”
He leaned forward, too, his face inches away from hers. Neither blinked. “What I believe doesn’t matter, Warchief. What do you believe?”
“I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away. I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city. I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended.” There was a
smile on Sylvanas’s face. It was not a pleasant one.“I believe the Darkspear tribe hasn’t forgotten who drove them from their islands,” she continued. “I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps. I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what your people have done to redeem yourselves. And I remember very well that I and my first Forsaken were once loyal Alliance citizens. We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin. I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms. And believing that, answer this, Saurfang: what use is delaying the inevitable?”
Silence hung between them for a while. When Saurfang spoke, his voice had calmed. “Then we should talk of preparing for the next war, not starting it today.”
“We are,” she said. “You are the only living creature I know who has conquered both Stormwind and Orgrimmar, Saurfang. You say a direct attack on Stormwind is impossible with our forces today. Is the same true for the Alliance? Do we have enough natural defenses in Orgrimmar to repel a surprise assault?”
No, Saurfang concluded instantly. He rebelled against that thought, but every counterargument he could think of died quickly. Orgrimmar was more exposed than Stormwind. Its port was outside the city walls and thus was vulnerable. The civil war against Garrosh Hellscream had proved that. It would not be simple to crack open Orgrimmar again—Saurfang had spent years making sure of it—but it was possible, and he knew how it could happen. Draw off our navy, land troops in Durotar and Azshara, isolate the city, begin the siege from two directions, wait for the city to starve . . .“It’s my duty to make sure that doesn’t happen, Warchief.”
“And if it does?”
Saurfang laughed bitterly. “Then the Horde charges into battle and dies honorably that day, because there will be nothing else left for us but a slow death inside these walls.”
Sylvanas did not laugh with him. “It is my duty to stop that from happening.”
“The boy in Stormwind will not start a war tomorrow,” Saurfang said.
Her eyebrows lowered. “With Genn Greymane in his ear? We will see.”
That was a concern, Saurfang had to concede. In the thick of the fighting against the Burning Legion, Greymane had launched a mission to kill Sylvanas. It had gotten some of Stormwind’s few remaining airships destroyed.
There were whispers that Greymane had ordered the attack without Anduin’s permission, but as far as Saurfang knew, Greymane had not been punished. The implications of that were troubling, and every possible explanation led to same conclusion: the old worgen would always drive the Alliance toward war against the Horde.
Sylvanas’s eyes glittered. “And the boy is becoming a man. What if that man decides that he has no choice but to launch a war on us?”
Saurfang’s voice had dropped to a low growl. “A hundred years of peace is a worthy goal.” But as soon as the words left his mouth, he wanted to take them back. He knew what Sylvanas would say.
And he would agree with it.
The warchief did not disappoint. “If a hundred years of peace ends with a war that annihilates both sides, it was not a worthy goal. It was a coward’s bargain, trading the future for temporary comfort. The Horde’s children, and their children’s children, will curse our memories as they burn.” Her voice softened, but only slightly. “If life had any mercy at all, you and I would exist in peace for the rest of our days. We both have seen enough of war, but neither of us has seen the last of it.”
Maybe if I link the best parts of the books Smallz may actually learn to read. (Haha but that’s asking a lot since he doesn’t even use grammar)
Diehard Alliance fans prove time and time again that she is right. The Alliance fans want the total inihillation of the Horde.
2 Likes
Brilliant writing.
Sylvanas - They might attacks us in the future. So better attack them first.
Saurfag - Durr ok.
– Later that expansion –
Saurfang - Ok I and all my Horde brothers and sisters just participated in a genocide and have irreperably damaged the trust that Alliance would every put in with our people ever again. Dear Andiun, the person Sylvanas warned me will not always be the dependable person to keep peace between our peoples before we committed genocide. Lets work together and stop Sylvanas for peace.
Andiun - for Azeroth.
Saurfang - for Azeroth.
Jaina - Bewar… i mean for Azeroth.
Narrator: And so the Horde and Alliance lived happily ever after… the end.
Renautus: “This was the greatest story i have ever read.”
2 Likes
You madam get the Jon Stewart “Le Me Make You Debate Yourself” Award.
2 Likes
And honestly, that’s what I, a natural optimist, think Sylvanas is most wrong about.
Because people can change, and forgive, and do better than they have in the past, on Azeroth as on Earth. That nihilistic view may sometimes be accurate… but not always. And people are worth taking a chance on, as opposed to preemptive strikes.
Besides, on Azeroth it’s a pretty fair bet a new enemy is going to pop up and force the Alliance and the Horde to work together and forge bonds.
3 Likes
I think that’s how they are going to explain the difference between The Banshee Queen and the Ranger General moving forward while still keeping her the same character. The Banshee Queen was so devoid of hope or never had the potential for optimism over pragmatism, because she didn’t believe in anything but the worst in people.
BfA proved her wrong in so many ways. In this text she says that she’s counting on Genn to be a warhawk. And Genn in BFA does the exact opposite of what she expects him to do, so she doesn’t know everything.
She’s ‘right’ but she’s also very wrong. People can change. including herself.
(people won’t like the idea that Sylvanas can also change but I embrace it)
2 Likes
Whatever chance the Horde had to come to an understanding with the Alliance was shot down when Saurfang and Sylvanas did WoT.
Its impossible for Sylvanas to be right because she engineered a scenario where her “worst” fears are the most natural and logical courses of action.
The peace treaty signed with the Horde is not worth the paper it was written on.
The Alliance has taken many, many chances with the Horde and they have been burned every single time. It makes little sense to just assume things will be different this time.
3 Likes
Considering what she had to live through, what Arthas made her do to her own people, even evil people can have PTSD and she’s got enough for a psychologist to make papers out of.
1 Like
If there is one positive from this trainwreck, it’s that the Horde finally isn’t under the unilateral authority of the Supreme Dictator For Life.
Which is one reason that maybe, authors willing, things will actually move on.
1 Like
Is it though?
Everyone that followed Sylvanas were also with Garrosh.
The only reason they switched sides was that both times the warchief turned on them first.
For Sylvanas its much worse. All they had to do was literally stay home… they didn’t need to stand with Sylvanas at Lordaeron. Sylvanas was screwed.
They could have just let her and her loyalists stand alone and face justice.
Honestly this trainwreck just showed that its not just 1 warchief thats the problem. its the entire Horde. And when they said the citizens support sylvanas its not just some warmongering generals but the actual civilians.
This is a top to bottom problem that the Horde has. The Horde has lost any semblance of an excuse for their behavior and if logic prevailed the idea of a Horde and Alliance peaceful coexistence is a dream unless mandated by their very survival. But it won’t be a happy marriage thats for sure.
6 Likes
Yes, but with the whole blood oath not being a thing anymore, maybe the good citizens of the Horde will stop following MUH HONOR directly off a cliff, since they’re no longer swearing unilateral loyalty to a single figure who has historically been likely to be a kitten eating monster.
If this oath was so important and integral to the Horde leaders there would have never been a rebellion. They would have kept their oath through thick and thin.
Why decide to break the oath when its convenient? If they can argue the pact was broken by the actions of the warchief then they can point towards being lied to for Teldrassil.
The opportunity was there to disassociate themselves from Sylvanas. Afterall she was the SECOND warchief they were following that was clearly evil. What Blizzard has done is irreversible and they screwed themselves by making precedents that the oath can be broken and then refuse to allow the characters to break it when it matters most.
The Horde identity of being more than a killer monster faction is pretty much dead. They are no different than the old horde. They just have a better PR department.
3 Likes
The only one who cared about that oath was Nazgrim and he died a traitor to the Horde.
I killed him for it.
You barely have comprehension of Alliance lore smallz don’t pretend you know anything about the Horde.
4 Likes
There should have been Kor’kron at the very least, even if they were corrupted by the Void. A raid can’t have two NPCs, right?
2 Likes
As always your posts are just petty attacks intended to get me to start an argument. You have been trying really hard for the past couple days but I will let you in on a little secret.
I ain’t interested.
If you think there is something factually wrong with what I said then address it. If it isn’t wrong then move on with your day.
It wasn’t really played up, but it at least offers a possible reason to follow someone nuttier than a squirrel and cashew sandwich (on wholegrain nut and seed bread).
2 Likes
I don’t think Horde will be made into villains again for a while at least. It seems pretty clear to everyone that they’ll villainbat the Alliance. Which will be hilarious to see because they’ll have to let the Alliance actually win any battles that they fight in the game and not write them as a small line in a book no one will read.
I imagine Alliance villainy will be the same as the Iron Horde which accomplished none of their goals and just lost over and over again. Except probably not even that because the Iron Horde at least destroyed Nethergarde and I don’t even think they’ll let the Alliance get that far.
If you’re Horde, you better be prepared to lose something to the Alliance that makes you feel like you could be under threat, that you have to appeal to “the heart of the Alliance” because you cannot stop the Alliance on your own.
I’m more than prepared for that. Alliance players wanna go Lux Vult. Let 'em. Make them feel like they’d actually crush the Horde under their gold-plated boot heel and that they’re actually a dangerous threat so I don’t feel like I’m kicking puppies that are just clawing for their right to exist in the world.
1 Like
Aw man, I remember when I thought that after MoP. Those four years were good.
10 Likes