I feel like with the recent changes monks have tons of throughput.
Yulon on a 1 minute cooldown is big healing every pull and multiple times per boss.
The SG on top of it.
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so with this mentality, if they ever do release legendaries… or the next set of tier, one of the specs would be dead until that item doesnt exist… thats the problem
If they did a split the way I wrote about, this wouldn’t be a problem at all. All legendaries could affect the subspecs differently or in the same way if it worked for both.
I’m not saying this to sound like an elitist, but a 7 is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things, at that level you barely need a healer so anyone can do it. At higher levels though there is a considerable difference in healers. Yes a mistweaver can heal anything up to a 20, however a mistweaver has to work twice as hard to do the same healing as a meh resto druid. So why risk taking the chance the mw you invited is skilled when a meh resto druid can do the same amount of healing easier.
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Very easy to answer. They have to cast for almost all heals and only have one school of healing magic. That combo simply does not work. As a bonus they also take more damage then any other healer, being. Alesther wearer with no bear form, not played armor, etc…
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Fistweaving is done through instants+SCK, Vivify is instant every ten seconds, ReM is instant, Revival is instant, Zen Pulse is instant, and Essence Font can be cast while moving. Sure, you have to plant if you’re pumping EM/Vivify, but any healer that doesn’t end in “aladin” also has to plant to pump their max throughput (and Evokers are just SOL if a tank is getting their lid blown off and they’re out of CDs). Comparatively speaking, mobility is not a big issue for Mistweavers.
This also applies pretty evenly to all other healers that don’t end in “iscipline” or “eservation,” though. And to add to that, 1) basically any mechanic that causes a spell school lockout is telegraphed and avoidable, and 2) fistweaving abilities are physical, so if you get locked out, you can keep healing as long as you have your buff up
The armor class doesn’t matter most of the time in PvE since there isn’t a ton of unavoidable physical damage, and in any case MW has pretty good defensives.
Now that I re-read it, the inclusion of “bear form” added to the earlier comment on spell school makes me think that maybe your whole post is about PvP? But the OP is very clearly talking about keys, so maybe you didn’t read it and just responded to the thread title?
Anyway, the things I think that have generally held back Mistweavers’ perception in M+ have been poor CDs, mana issues, and slow response to party members getting suddenly chunked (two of which have seen fairly significant recent changes in that regard).
Not to sound rude but almost none of what you said made sense and I was beginning to think that you were trolling me and then I noticed you were talking about PvE. my phone recommended me this topic and I just assumed it was in the arena forum when I replied. Anyway I only meant PvP, don’t know anything about PvE state of classes. My bad really heh.
This. So much this. It’s ridiculous how even now MW’s still need 5-10ilvl higher than other healers to do the same content and/or have to have a party that can play around their weak spots for high keys.
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It’s aoe burst healing is weaker than most (and is harder to use). Also having to wait 1 entire global after casting soothing means your teammate is probably already dead.
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It’s 2/3rds of a global. Soothing initiates a 1 sec gcd for itself rather then the 1.5 sec gcd.
If your teammate is gonna die in one second you/they probably screwed up somewhere unless it’s pvp.
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Coming from a guardian/resto druid that I tanked/healed up to 18s/19s, now my MW is in the 15s.
There is a lack of utility. It’s not ZERO utility (as many hyperbolically claim), but the other healers do have more CC, more ‘oh sht’ buttons, more depth to their healing. MWs bring dmg as their utility, but even with a fistweaving build this is still kinda ‘meh’ dmg. In particular single target dps needs to be buffed.
While fistweaving has a lot of mobility, and it’s throughput is fine, it’s not precise heals. If I need to spam a single target, whether MW or FW, I lose all the mobility and I’m just a squishy stand’n’spam in an environment where you cannot stand still for any length of time. Soothing mist, envenloping mist, sheilunes, are all stand’n’cast. Font’s ‘move while channeling’ is really the saving grace of FWing, but caster MWing has surprisingly terrible mobility.
MW has a fantastic ‘middle gear’. When things are going smooth and allies hitting their marks/interrupts/etc… It’s a ton of fun, infinite mana, lotsa movement. But they lack a ‘high gear’. When things go all to hell, my druid can just blast out absurd amounts of healing, and I can keep that up for 30-45s straight. MW doesn’t have anything similar. Revive is nice but has a long CD, sheilune is nice but again long CD, and after that I have my silly crane which only works when I’m meleeing. I can’t blanket the group with renewing mist, essence font is nice but not what wild growth can kick out, and there’s nothing to layer it with. Other casters have 3, 4, 5+ abilities to layer when things go bad, MW just doesn’t have depth.
The spec works, but there’s clearly some deficiencies.
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What makes monk bad in the wow community’s eyes? They fact that there is no reason to pick up a monk for any PvE group. I’m not saying you cant bring one, I’m not saying you cant have success with one. I’m saying that when someone goes to form a group, they are looking for the group to have certain things.
Need Brez? Druids/Paladins
Need Lust? Sham/Evoker
Need just a crapton of raw HPS? Druid/Evoker.
Need DRs/Purges/Bops/lifegrips/etc… we can go on all day but I can tell you one thing, MW aint going to be in much of those list.
Obviously there are many other “demands” that can help get someone into a group/raid, but monks really only have one thing. 5% phys damage buff. It might get you a slot in a raid (assuming no Brew/WW have already taken it) but it’s unlikely to get you into a M+ on its own.
Side note on M+, unless you are a 3000 rated gigachad or somesuch, there are plenty of healers at whatever rating you are. So IO is unlikely to get you into a group when most can just wait for another healer of better class and equivalent IO to sign up.
When it comes to monk healing, it’s simple that monk has to provide near top HPS to be high-tier, as they lack a lot of utility in PvE environments. An alternative would be doing high DPS, but it needs to be impactful enough to cover the loss of having a healer who also brings utility, and hell probably has equivalent if not higher HPS…
People heavily preference other healers for content, if that doesn’t make the spec “bad” I don’t know what else could.
As to why specifically the monk community dislike it?
All of the above plus:
If fistweaving is the dominant playstyle, the mistweavers are sad.
If mistweaving is the dominant playstyle, the fistweavers are sad.
Monk healers have gone through so many identity changes over the past couple expansions that a lot of players now find themselves on the outside looking in at a class that no longer meshes with the way they want to play. It doesn’t matter if its viable or top tier or trash, its fundamental identity keeps shifting, pushing people who enjoyed the previous version out.
My personal gripe is that my favorite spells, Soothing Mist and JSS, are becoming weaker and crapper every expansion. These were the two spells that got me into playing MW to begin with, now I barely notice/use them. I miss the days of JSS smart heal beam bouncing around the raid…
Honestly at this point Blizz needs to either commit to making both separate (whether by well executed talent tree design or a whole new spec), or picking one and telling people who enjoy the other to buzz off.
And yes Im still salty about all of this.
12 Likes
MW lack of sustain aoe healing in shadowland and dragonflight. RM in MoP, WoD, Legion all spread smartly to 3 ppl and with long hots where we can blanket 5 ppl easily for whole fight. But in shadowlands and dragonflight, RM must become so weak! We cant blanket 5 ppl easily anymore. MW become the hardest healer to play with. In PuG, most group don’t want mistweaver. This is the fact that MW is not good to most ppl.
That was only MoP and WoD, current ReM is from the Legion class updates.
Wholeheartedly agree with this. Compared with other healers, MW damage is very lackluster to the point that it’s not a selling point for the spec… even though damage is what drives our baseline/maintenance healing (for fistweaving).
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I randomly got this idea that probably would be OP:
What if all the Blackout Kicks that would be done while on the Faeline, attacking 3 targets, would instead burst out into one or two targets if there are less than 3?
Because this could be too strong, a more balanced idea could be that the damage scaling would be adjusted, depending on hitting 1, 2 or 3 targets.
Its good for all content lower than like a 22 or something and late mythic bosses, past that its kit falls off when compared to others. Still is good though just slightly less so than its competition. Super fun spec though, I’ve long wanted blizzard to just make it busted for a tier, they do it with so many other specs.
Yulon + envelope/vivify is an insane amount of party healing for 12 seconds every minute.
Especially if you have Tear.
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Wouldn’t it also follow that this is the case in all keys? It’s twice as hard in a +15, a +10, etc?
Also I really don’t understand why MW still needs to have mana issues.
compared to convoke its kind of laughable tbh. Generally if you need to pop Yu Lon you need to move aswell so it doesnt work well if you cant pump out heals. Instead on something like convoke you can press it and move and everyone is getting healed. This will generally fill up your party with HP without any other ability used either.
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