I have a feeling Seal of Fate and Find Weakness, w/ Outlaw using the Ambush side of the tree is going to basically be an absolute meat blender. Never been able to get Seal of Fate and go deep in the Combat tree before… I’m super excited to try it out.
If I’m understanding the talents correctly you can get 45% chance to have Sinister Strike attack twice… and you can spec that to proc an out of stealth Ambush (which might be able to apply find weakness)… There is another talent which looks like it allows Ambush to potentially hit twice at the same rate that Sinister Strike can hit twice… if I’m understanding what that does correctly.
If you have enough crit, you could in theory press Sinister Strike > Proc Second Sinister Strike > Press Ambush > Proc extra Ambush, and end up getting 8CP if everything crits… which would be great, cause you can increase your CP cap to 7… You might not even need Dread Blades. It’d probably feel like having Windfury all the time.
Not to mention, that extra juicy crunch noise you get when you crit when you have Seal of Fate is just the best.
I honestly can’t wait to do some science with the new trees.
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this is my pvp outlaw build
Bgs/2s assassin kill build
I don’t know if venomous wounds is better than venom rush. I’ve never played sepsis so I can’t tell how valuable it is for garrote.
Let’s not forget the interaction with Count The Odds having 60% chance to give another RtB buff and Shadow Dance being reduced by Restless Blades I think we are going to have 100% uptime in Find Weakness and just spam Ambush.
no vendetta and shadow dance isnt exclusive to sub is quite alarming to me.
My first run through of the calculator skipped any of the ending baseline options which I know isnt viable.
Making me talent for seal fate Blizzard? thats crazy and if I get pigenholed into using Dance regardless of spec or echoing reprimand that isnt enjoyable gameplay for me.
You will never take sealed fate in the current form of the tree as Outlaw because Shadowdance gives a 10% damage buff, is on Restless Blades and also Nightstalker giving a 20% buff.
Your ST build will look look something like this
taking a point out of Alacrity if you want Elusiveness and last point in Outlaw tree is flexable because we will probably have enough free haste and energy regen to sustain Ambush > Finisher spam and you already don’t use Blade Rush outside of low energy situations.
Ace is already a meme because BTE will always do less damage than Dispatch and you’re just using it to apply the debuff, QD will be pointless since you’re never going to be hitting Pistol Shot, Dreadblades is trash because of absurd CP gen from Ambush (+ Improved), Audacity is useless because Dance / Restless synergy, and because Dance is considered stealthed the two RTB talents also lose value because of CTO.
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I wish they had left Shadow Dance as Sub only ability. Throwing that gameplay at Outlaw is disappointing. even kinda lazy on blizzards part.
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I’d really like to see some changes to the Outlaw tree that doesn’t gate the CDR and raid utility behind the worst rogue ability in the game, but I’m going to say least attempt to play Combat without a slot machine bolted to it. IF they insist on forcing it for another expansion I’ll probably just stick to assassination for the long term. https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/rogue/outlaw/BORVFFBBRGAhEzRGAPVVUUEBERVBYkFgQA
I really liked the concealed blunderbuss playstyle, sad to not see it as an option
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Hmmm… Will 7cps with double CP gen just feel like 5cps with classic CP gen (only faster energy gen)? Also, no Anticipation coming back to have a reserve CP pool??
Also, why is Crimson Vial baseline but Evasion is a talent? Crimson Vial should be a talent LOL…
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Crimson Vial is more important for leveling and quest content.
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Then pick it up as a talent if that’s how you choose to build. I’m going to disagree as evasion saves pulls, where vial just delays them.
I do see how recovery BETWEEN pulls is more benefited by a healing skill than a DR skill, but counterpoints (1) bring food, (2) why are rogues healing again (3) rogue potion devalues alchemical potions.
The current space in the tree where Nimble Fingers is could have Vial get plugged and that would make aesthetic sense, and you would still earn it extremely early in the leveling/questing experience.
I think most pve encounters benefit more from self heals than dodging. How often are rogues face tanking?
When Questing and Leveling?
Almost all the time.
I agree that as a utility in dungeons it’s more useful to take Vial, but why isn’t the utility a talent and aligned with the goal of talent trees?
Relative to another class with a skill that functions similarly, Priests talent Renew.
They felt vial has more uses than evasion. Idk what else to say.
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I think they’re also learning as they go here (why Rogue got kick baseline but DK did not). Which is why I offer the feedback – it’s less about Evasion becoming baseline (even though it’s far more vanilla), and more about the extra utility being off the tree (which again, this utility seems less on-theme for Rogue as a class when Alchemy exists).
I get why players wouldn’t bring it up. It’s free real estate. But I also think there’s a line between everything baseline and nothing baseline, and feel this one is actually a step in the opposite direction.
There is no point in arguing with somebody that only does world quests. Vial has more use in every pve situation except if you’re running Killing Spree so you don’t kill yourself to stuff like deadly thrust in HoA or bucking rampage in MoTS.
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Vial is just the rogue’s answer to DH soul fragments, Monk spheres, Paladins having holy light, etc. Having leveled a rogue recently, I found getting vial was a huge part of sustaining post-encounter leveling momentum. Evasion was great for planning and surviving larger pulls, but its cooldown is too long to rely on it playing a similar role. Relying on food for HP recovery after combat has been a relic for every other class than mages for a long time, and they literally get an ability to conjure food for that purpose.
You could arguably do without Evasion in PvE, especially group PvE, while the supplemental HoT from Vial is much more readily applied against unavoidable AoE or other incidental damage.
PvP obviously is a different story.
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One thing I love about vial is that classic RPG vibe of having a red hp potion. It’s been convention since the 80s at least.
It might feel “off” if you played a rogue since vanilla since it’s newer, basically was recuperate’s replacement, but as noted it’s just far more applicable to most parts of the game. Recovering from magic damage, for example.
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