What is the REAL reason

PVP Battlegrounds
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…Subscription numbers, and PVP specific participation is on a downhill trajectory?

Many players, as is evidenced here on this forum, feel that there is a lack of a serious effort to address game shortcomings or to make general improvements to the gaming experience. Others feel that the current mechanics (XXXX is OP, I hate being one-shot by ZZZ), or relevant glitches are making the current iteration of WoW unbearable to play. Some players feel the content is stale and the expansions are just fresh paint on the same ideas. All of these points, to varying degrees, are true. However…

The longer I play this game, the more I realize that it is the PLAYERS themselves who seem to be the real underlying problem. I find that over the years I can recognise how players first become siloed, then blindered to anything but their own fix. I am also finding that after a number of years having played, some players become very territorial, feeling that they, and only they are the experts on whatever theorycraft or idea/ opinion is thrown out either on the forums or in game.

The problems we see with declining subscriptions, which eventually leads to dwindling support, are primarily based on people that are no longer able to find enjoyment in our little world. That being said, being unable to kill a “Megachicken” to get the “Magic Egg of Fart Reduction” is far less unpleasant than logging on to a BG and having players raging in chat because you are not where they want you to be. For that matter, waiting 1.5 hours in LFG to get into a raid, only to be booted because the R/L promised his bud the “Armrocket of A$$kicking” from the 6th boss. These are things I have actually experienced (as have most of you) and many times more than once. These are situations that involve players, not game interactions.

Over the years I feel this poor behavior has become distilled. The negative discourse and pointed attacks have become very focused, often using the very worst language to get the very most shock value. In many cases the attacking response is personal rather than addressing the subject. Moreover, Groups (on these forums) have developed a kind of code, as if their knowledge is privileged, and newbies are not allowed (a newbie question answered with theorycraft, stuffed with acronyms and slang buzz, one example). Keeping new players at arms-length may seem good to establish the elite few, but over time those newbies WILL lose interest. As they take their subscription dollars with them the developer resources go away…and eventually our game will follow.

If we can’t come to a collective consensus of what we want or need, how can anyone give it to us? If we go about asking for things by attacking those who can give them to us, how can we in any way expect satisfaction?

I am scratching my head.

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Magic Egg of Fart Reduction lol. What we want is new pvp content. Warfronts were such a disappointment and had so much wasted potential. Imagine if those were player vs player and not player vs AI. We want new bgs, new epics, more pvp titles and xmogs, better mounts (this season’s frog is FUGLY!).

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Gawd it is so hard to disagree with those cute Vulperas! TK your requests are perfectly in line with someone who wants to improve the game for everyone. Your concluding observation is also dead-on, that frog is hideous.

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This is all I got out of reading all that. And I don’t want that! It troubles me greatly that I can no longer brush up against someone and fart loudly. I tried to do that against a Horde player in IoC last night and was verily disappointed to find out it doesn’t work anymore. :frowning:

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I know now I have to /fart then /point at the usual suspects when I am standing in the enclave :stuck_out_tongue: Bring back farting on ppl now Blizz! That’s what we really want!

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The real reason PvP participation numbers are tanking is because of the failed PvP gearing they decided to implement, even though devs in the past explained it was bad for PvP. All they need to do is keep trying harder to make it work, keep doubling down, and sooner or later it will spontaneously turn PvP participation around.

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I get that, and I don’t disagree. Unfortunately we as players do not have much power to change things before it is too late to turn around.

That being said, I will tolerate being steamrolled over someone trying to bully or gaslight me, every time. I would venture a guess that more people leave a BG because of the horrible crap being said in BG chat than the shame of losing. This is something we can actually try to control, as you eloquently pointed out to Ruthless in the other thread. We can ignore and report people who have the need to rain on everyone else’s parade. They do far more damage than any game glitch.

I mean who likes being whomped by some tiny Foxrat wearing feathers, while being told by your own team that you are (derogatory expletive) and don’t know how to play because you didn’t listen to them?

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Classic MM hunter post. Your spec is one of the reasons why BG’s are not fun.

A spec that has 50yard range, can’t be interrupted ever and can 2 shot is literally fun for no one except the hunter.

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Rating tied to gear.

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I wouldn’t say it’s the “enjoyment” but rather the reward. “People that are no longer able to find the reward in our little world.” - WoW Token voided rewards. A large population took advantage of the cheating do to prior “WoW highlight” (things being presented as skillful and achievement worthy - used to be praise worthy and gleeful to show off) are just purchased rather than earned now. The illegitimate gain inflation heavily devalued the earned achievements.

The game is visually familiar. It’s like strolling through memory lane at this point because I’m not engaged with the game. The reward structure was obliterated in favor of the dollar. The game is totally foreign where it’s core used to be.

Just my thoughts, opinions, and deduction.

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Oh come on, the worst I’ve called people are “idiots” and “morons.”

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Case in point… :clown_face:

If I am not mistaken you have said the same thing in most (maybe all) of the threads you post in. I think everyone understands you are the Hunter that hates Hunters. Everyone has a beef, and Hunters are at the center of your red vision.

The focus of my initial wall of text revolves more around a different concept: we all know what we don’t like, so how are we going to handle it? Do we roll over and complain/ whine about all of our butt hurt psyche’s, or do we try to have fun with the people we enjoy? I am finding that most of the frustrated people in the game need someone or something to use as a reason for their own failure. Winning or being “best” has never been a guarantee, so isn’t it more rewarding to grasp that, and move on to parts of the game you like?

I hated that green and purple goo that stuck to me in IoC awhile ago, it stuck on me till I died. Doesn’t mean I want to gather the townfolk with their pitchforks and go kill every Warlock I see. Dude, find some peace and enjoy what you can.

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Jokes aside, can you actually explain this a bit in more detail?
From what I’ve seen, most people try to help new players who ask a question on something. What is knowledge that is “kept” from newer players intentionally?

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As someone who leaves and comes back months at a time, its honestly the renown system and mythic requirements i just wanna log on and pvp, but instead i have to farm renown to be able to level up my gear and do mythic+ content i could care less about to get good gear so i dont get one shot, then of course is the annoying legendary farming, literally just let me play the game.

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Please keep in mind that the reason I am involved with SoD is because the atmosphere is calm and most are generally helpful. This is exactly what I mean by finding what and who you enjoy to play with.

I will try to explain my drivel using a quite recent example:

I actually took a stroll into the dreaded Arena forums yesterday, I want to improve my gear so I thought I would test the waters. I peeked into a thread started by a rather high-ranked Monk that was mad about having a warrior take 55k health in a second or two. There were some comments, responses, and a bit of theorycrafting in regard to “how it happened”. I thought it was interesting and for once was content to just read…until…

Another high ranking, well known arena guy drops into the conversation and basically tells a lesser mortal to shut up. His reasoning was ‘nobody asked for your opinion, you unranked dirt muncher’. There was a blast of intellectual snobbery that went along with the scathing half-a-page response. The response was off topic, and it was personal, and potentially very humiliating. I dunno, but that kind of behavior has never flown with me. I engaged and got a similar but less incendiary response. This bullying comes along with all of the code, slang and insider speak (a bushel of acronyms mixed with theorycraft terms coined by the hard-core elitists) that can be very off-putting to anyone who does not participate in PvP combat. It comes across like that guy who goes to a party and everyone there but him speaks a foreign language, and they refuse to speak english.

My point is that when people get the feeling that they are ignorant, or unwelcome, it is easier (for them) to leave than to share their ignorance (shame). I agree, there are some good people here, and I actually enjoy the banter. It feels good to know there are players who have some of the same wacky ideas that I do. My concern is that those people are offset by a minority of jaded, self-important basshats that can literally sabotage any good experience.

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All I said is he left Horde cause we can’t stand him. :smiley: 100% TRUE! :wink:

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So imo the reason there is a decline in enjoyable content and just experiences in game isn’t just lack of new stuff or even certain gearing and game mechanics. U hit the nail on the head with it being the people. So this game is a business and a product to have money made on. It will be hard for the company to see or even gamble with the product by my idea I’m about to say. Imo they need to quit catering to every little whim of the player base in the sense of how the world is sensitive these days. I’ll give an example on something u pointed out about yourself and then things that happen to me on a regular.

So first of all your example of the arena forums. U say there’s ones that bash personally and it turns off the player base. Well I’m 50/50 on this. I think people should grow a pair and do better with the words being spoke to them. But I also think there’s a point that the bashers need to stay on topic and when they get called on their bs don’t run to mom and dad (blizzard) and report what they don’t like to read or hear.

So that gets to my example. I came to these forums a few years ago now. I had already been known in game by a smaller amount of the community. But then I started seeing and hearing about these zerg guilds and pvp communities. So I thought hey I remember the days when u would trash talk on the forums to build up pvp feuds and such. Build of reputation and make friends and enemies in the scene. I soon found out that was far from the truth. Most these guys on here are the definition of dish it but can’t take it. They get their feelings hurt about words in pvp. It’s crazy how much a persona I built up has become a major entity within this community in such short time. My point is that most don’t tighten their belt and enjoy things for what they are. They will cry and have people banned or what not and because this is a product the company will listen to the weak minded instead of letting it run it’s course and the game go back to its glory days. I know society in all aspects have made this mentality a norm. But how many things in most of our lives are not as great because someone else doesn’t like it? If u don’t like it leave it alone and go do something u do like. Leave things to those who do like it and eventually everything falls into place.

The company is afraid to do anything because of backlash of its player base. The woke ones. But if they buckled down and just did things that worked in the past or improved on what worked then the game would thrive again, it’s not hard to see that. Weather the storm of crybabies. Heck right now is the perfect time to do this with wow, all time low of game. Either go up from here or close up shop

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You must have some ego to believe your personal disliking of myself has any effect on my faction.
I promise you, your name didn’t even pop into my head ONCE when I was thinking of playing my warlock again. :wink:

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Oh it’s not just me that thinks that, it’s the whole faction and you know it. :wink:

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SoD had 6 branches on Horde (>5000 members) back when I was leading Horde. But all the allies in the world means nothing if there’s no enemy to fight, no rival to go against. There was essentially a PVP content drought on Horde, and many players, including myself, were losing interest.

What’s the point in being a part of a WPVP army if there’s no opposing army in a video game? It’s just…boring.