You also have to take into account we’re playing a version based on 1.12 and many changes happened between release and the final version. Itemization, talents, balance changes, etc…
Nobody in a top guild was keyboard turning or clicking in vanilla raids. I played in one. People weren’t bad back then, but the loot, talents, skills, etc. were changing a lot, the raids were harder at release, your talents weren’t as good, the mechanics were not known beforehand, etc.
LFR players make it hard.
If I brought those same players with no ony cloak. Lowest gear at 60(aka quest gear some dungeon gear). Of course no buffs/enchants. I don’t think the first boss would go down in BWL.
Cannot even see those ppl killing Mc.
15% afk, 10% auto attacking, 15% not knowing the fights, and whatever else.
50 to 75 percent are the worst players to bring to a raid. Then says it’s hard? No LFR is mind numbing easy. Ppl make it hard. Imagine on easy boss baron in Mc. The bomb. No body moving away. Boom boom dead run back samething boom boom.
That’s apart of LFRs difficulty
LFR by design is beyond easy.
Add the special ppl and it’s harder than heroic. If u take organized raid it would be blah easy.
You can classic hard as well just invite the mage with crusader enchanting on his weapon.
I don’t think you can make classic hard without severe handicaps.
Classics true end game is PvP
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Well if u play classic invite a LFR type style and u facepalm yourself.
Retail is raiding is far and away more difficult than Classic.
And only getting more and more difficult as time goes on (for the most part, individual fights vary).
Honestly though I prefer the classic approach of coming prepared with warm bodies ready to down some bosses over the yikes that retail raiding can be. Retail stresses me out sometimes. I mean, I manage the fights well when I bother with them and am always among the last to die in a wipe but as others have said just one or two people messing something up in a retail encounter can wipe the raid. Ugh.
LFR N’Zoth gave me PTSD.
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Classic is retail.
Same sub, built off of legion architecture, bnet included and same playerbase mentality.
Retail was a term created/used by private server players when they did not have an option to pay to play a vanilla version of the game and now they do.
Welcome to retail.
Huh?
This conversation isn’t about retail vs classic in terms of the playerbase it’s about raid encounters. Raids between the versions are undeniably different. The design behind them has changed over the years.
There is literally a video from a rogue POV of the world first Rag kill of him clicking feint and typing to his friend how much fun the raid is mid-fight.
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I think this is the biggest thing. The things that made raiding hard back then are trivial today. Normal dungeons are more mechanically intensive than all vanilla raids till Naxx. Heroic dungeons surpass Naxx in complexity. We haven’t even gotten to mythic/M+ or raids lol
Another thing people forget is the number of hours put into raiding. Back in vanilla top guilds didn’t spend 16 hours a day raiding every day till content was down. Now it’s “method cleared x-raid first reset, what a joke vanilla was harder.” But they forget method put in 500 wipes in the last boss in those 2-3 days of progression. That’s literally not possible in classic.
LMAO you didn’t wipe that many times on those bosses, that’s how many times the guilds who got world first achievements wiped. Think about what you said, you only wiped 3 times on a boss that’s been out for 15 years for which all of the strategies and answers have been handed to you on a silver platter - and you’re comparing that to the wipe count for the earliest kills on retail.
Solving the DaVinci code through synchronized dance, while at random intervals 5 random people get banished to the shadow realm and have to do a perfect YMCA in 6/8 time signature, but if someone holds the A for too long, the whole raid wipes.
Additionally, in phase 2(of 8), everyone must take their place in a perfect grid so the boss can play bejeweled with the raid members, and if they don’t color-coordinate down to the hexidecimal, the whole raid wipes. Also this entire phase turns your screen purple, and random fireballs knockback people for…reasons.
Also, your only consumes are a mediocre flask, weak food, and maybe a couple health/mana pots, and there are no buffs to coordinate.
Basically, raiding in retail is a seizure-inducing mess. I, for one, like how relaxed and simple the mechanics are in Classic. Battering your head against the wall hundreds of times in a video game is about as intelligent of a decision as tying your shoelaces together and playing in traffic.
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I think this would be funny to watch here
Those numbers aren’t at all unusual around world ~500 where my guild was. The world first wipe numbers were higher than that, except on Argus where we were unusually bad. Method took almost 500 pulls on Archimonde in WoD.
DBM in wipe videos will confirm it.
“You have 337 wipes on this difficulty.”
“You have 469 wipes on this difficulty.”
“You have 251 wipes on this difficulty.”
“You have 242 wipes on this difficulty.”
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I did hardcore raiding for one expansion and got a heroic(what would now be mythic) end game boss down. It was fun once, then it turned into SSDD, and I’d rather just do classic raids.
Yeahh… the current dev team has a massive fetish for knockbacks and slip stream mechanics right now… those are just annoying.
Wow! You are right. I am the idiot afterall.
We’re all the idiot sometime or another.
It’s difficult to compare the two, IMO.
Retail has multiple difficulty levels, from story mode LFR on up to Mythic+, the latter of which, as I understand it, only a very small percentage of elite players ever experience.
Classic has one mode tuned for the average raiding guild, which usually contains a mixture of good and bad players. There is no hard mode. There is no easy mode. Or at least there wasn’t at the time. (15 years of perfecting gearing and strategies and figuring out that you can break encounters if you stack enough buffs has made it much easier than it was.)
It’s a very different design philosophy, and one I prefer. I like that everyone gets measured against everyone else because everyone is fighting the same bosses. There’s also no transmog, so when the community sees you walking around wearing certain gear, they know exactly what you and your guild has accomplished.