The current raid tier has a more or less “one-hit kill” mechanic at every boss. Wrathions scorched earth, Skitra’s madness, Maut’s Stygian Annihilation, etc. Even on LFR these mechanics, if ignored, will blow up all but the tanks and supremely geared (and/or using defensive cooldowns) players.
It would be like every boss in Classic casting Burning Adrenaline or something.
People figuring out how to ignore mechanics in Retail too, a lot more going on here than people realize, though.
One shot mechanics are definitely much more forgiving in LFR difficulty, can pretty much be ignored for a lot of fights.
You’re talking about LFR and not actual raiding. Heroic and mythic modes are the only forms of raiding to even talk about. Classic raiding is incredibly easy compared to retail raiding.
the lack of world buffs is really nice
Hey there,
Classic is retail.
Same sub, built off of legion architecture, bnet included and same player base mentality.
Retail was a term created/used by private server players when they did not have an option to pay to play a vanilla version of the game and now they do.
Welcome to retail.
Everything that has happened in Classic WOW was already accomplished 15ish years ago. All raids are well known and there’s lots of add-ons that make raiding in Classic that much easier.
Now, when everything was new (vanilla) and people had no idea really what was happening, this seemed more difficult.
Onyxia’s Lair was released with the original game and remained undefeated for 69 days.
Molten Core was released with the original game and remained undefeated 154 days, which is still the longest an endboss has survived in WoW’s history.
People who think raiding in Classic is easy are right, but the reasons why it is easy now are because of the difficulties experienced 15ish years ago.
LFR is basically a cakewalk except that some bosses are made difficult due to the general population LFR tends to attract. Eventually Blizzard nerfs those ones to be tolerable.
Normal requires a very low level of attention to detail and you can easily get through it with some competent people carrying the incompetent. Mechanics hurt, but likely won’t kill you quickly and are generally forgiving.
Heroic is kind of like Classic as far as damage intake goes, except Retail has more mechanics so I’d say Retail is harder by comparison.
Mythic is far and out more difficult than classic could ever hope to be.
The biggest battle Vanilla faced back in the day was crappy computer, crappy players, and the attendance boss because every raid worth being in was 40 man. A lot of those hurdles have been alleviated in 2020 not to mention we know everything about the game. If I had to put Classic somewhere on the Retail list I’d put it between normal and heroic, but really once you got people who where geared and at least a little bit prepared for the raid the content in Classic isn’t really all that tough, just unforgiving if you make a mistake.
I mean that video is from the perspective of a guild who has full cleared the raid since April and has had that particular boss dead since January so they are completely geared to the teeth now and getting overgeared and developing a cheese strat is nothing new.
It’s not really the same as people able to go into classic raids and quickly clear the place out from day one.
When a raid is new and the meta for the raid is not yet well established and you don’t yet out Gear the content it’s significantly harder.
Now, put a bunch of extra unavoidable mechanics into the mix because the classes are absurdly powerful and there ya go, that’s retail PvE, it’s hard and while the present story line is just terrible and a complete letdown, the raids are darn good, but the present tier nyalotha is bland looking and sub par compared to what retail is capable of.
The best two raids in classic are BWL and Naxx, as far as looks go.
The raids for old wow don’t really get good until TBC, because it’s when Blizzard really got into stride in raid building.
Please do not mistake me telling you that TBC will be hard because again we know the fights, what BiS gear, comp, consumes, drums, etc is.
Also Blizzard isn’t gonna ship per nerf TBC content because that would require effort to develop 2 of the same raid and many of the mid tier guilds would flop on T5 if it was pre nerf, but the private server TBC guilds will mow it down because of tons of practice.
Take 12+ years of practice and full scripted knowledge of BFA and the good guilds will effortlessly mow down the content, and that is just how scripted PvE content is.
Happy trails!
Yee, hence “a lot more going on here than people realize, though.” On top of all the cooldowns being spent at the right time and all that. Class knowledge in Retail just a lot more in depth.
World buffs and consumes in Classic are such a huge power creep that they let you steam roll the content at a tier launch, you have to gear out for it in Retail.
Point I was making is that some people seem to be under the impression that there’s no speed run or challenge run community in Mythic raiding and it’s not the case.
id say mechanics are harder but it’s more about the group effort.
best way i can describe it is it’s like a group project in highschool or grade school. some groups work together and it goes smooth. others well not so much maybe 2 out of 3 people will do most if not all the work while the 3rd person slacks and takes credit. that is how raiding in retail is.
everyone needs to pull their own weight when it comes to raiding meaning, knowing mechanics to fights ( prior to attempting them and brushing up as you constantly wipe ), buying flasks/potions, gearing up as much as possible, and knowing your class/spec. all that put together makes it easier to down the raids. most of the time a few are not as serious about raiding depending on your group so it pulls you down.
over time you will get it done though but not many are that patient been in so many pug groups where people will leave after just 1 wipe and funny thing is they are not even topping meters or anything they are sloppy. i have to pug most of my content btw cause of my work schedule so it’s worse for me. guild groups are easier to do them with but pugging i’d suggest staying away if you can.
it takes me maybe 6 hours to down a few bosses that my guild could do in just 3 hours or less. MOST of that time is spent rebuilding the pug after 1 wipe.
its fun i enjoy raiding in retail but not the fact that your basically forced to do m+ if you are competive raider a lot of your BiS gear will come from M+ thats why until you can replace it eventually.
this is why i brought up early on in like phase 1 that blizzard should just baseline increase all raid boss and raid trash hp/damage by 15%. not because of any reason other than to distinguish classic apart from 2004-2006 vanilla. people have computers that can run this game without any issue now. the overhead for difficulty should have been increased to compensate for the difference in ability to play the game. its not a big deal, but it would have been beneficial for the game in my opinion. i still enjoy raiding as it stands (being a perfect mirror copy of 1.12) and if they would at least make naxx harder all i can predict happening is a bunch of casuals self immolating in protest on blizzard’s front porch in california
I don’t think comparing retail mythic raiding to Classic raiding is a fair comparison. Of course it’s harder.
Classic has ONE version of raids, that are supposed to be at a medium level of difficulty, accessible to the average joe player that wants to put forth a moderate level of effort.
While retail has several versions of every raid, from story mode LFR where any drooling idiot can just log on, press a button, show up and collect free epics… all the way up to mythic, which is something only the elite of the elite top 5% of players even sniff at, right? They are basically hard mode raids, which didn’t exist in vanilla or TBC and weren’t introduced into the game until WotLK.
A better comparison is probably Classic raids vs. normal retail raids.
I saw an account of a player soloing a boss in Nylotha. Not doing that in classic. Nope.
And it wasn’t lfr either.
Off you go then, lets see you do it.
yes and it’s a bad thing. wow players don’t like difficulty, just look at mythic raid participation. there’s even an “easy” mode (looking for raid) which is easier than vanilla raids but gated by being matched with dozens of random players who are trying to put in the least amount of effort possible.
i guess that’s really what the true difficulty of WoW is at the end of the day, getting everybody to put in effort. everything from Heroic downward is mildly uncomfortable yet doable with a pug.
i still sorta think it’s an unfair comparison. if your guild is clearing BWL under 40 minutes that means your raid team is doing all their extra curricular activities with getting all the consumables and world buffs, farming out rare or expensive BIS items, maybe even ranking for hours a day to get better gear, and as a result actively trying not to die in raid which equates to not pulling threat, not taking unnecessary damage, popping cooldowns accordingly, and in general just paying attention.
i see no reason as to why hardcore vanilla players wouldn’t be able to transition over to mythic raiding. i know a favorite response is “lol if it’s so easy why dont u clear mythic” and the answer is simple, don’t want to. hard =/= fun
It’s also harder than normal and heroic nzoth 
Let me know when you do lfr nzoth and get back to me
Mythic is hard. I haven’t raided in retail in a bit but I remember Imperator Mar’gok, Blast Furnace, and Blackhand pushing me to my limits as a player. And there have been far harder bosses since then, like Kil’jaeden…
Classic raids take no skill so by default retails raids are harder than even getting grand marshal in classic WoW.
Theorycrafting and knowledge has more to do with it than anything else.
DPS is so much higher on Classic due to people doing it correctly this time around that bosses are getting zerged down before they really become a threat.