Is it really that much harder than BWL and AQ40?
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Let me tell you about 188 wipes on heroic Paragons of the Klaxxi 25, 258 wipes on mythic Archimonde, 266 wipes on mythic Gul’dan, 548 wipes on mythic Argus (don’t ask) and 402 wipes on mythic Jaina (that RNG boat though).
In classic we wiped 3 times on Firemaw the first week I think?
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It depends. There are multiple levels of difficulty. The hardest difficulty is definitely leagues harder than Classic raids. Normal would be about the same as Classic, with perhaps a bit more dancing around mechanics. At the same time, the tools available to each class are much wider than in Classic, particularly for healers, so in that way Retail is easier. Outside of raids and some of the mythic dungeons, Retail is definitely much easier than Classic.
That doesn’t mean they aren’t both fun in their own way.
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its que, wait for 30 minutes, get teleported to the the raid boss. wait for 60 seconds while everyone rematerializes their consciousnesses, then they rough pull with no idea what is going on, wipe, reset, pull again, active time warp, brute force the boss down with 6 players left alive, repeat
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I was in a terrible 4 hour LFR N’zoth a few months back. It’s not an insanely difficult fight on LFR, but it only takes a few people to not do their part correctly and the entire encounter falls apart. And if not for the stacking donald buff that makes the fight easier, I’m sure there’s no way my group would’ve killed him.
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To be fair, this is an unfair comparison. This would be like me saying “Well Ouro and C’thun took 87 and 86 days respectively to kill, so they are harder than anything less than that.” 6 of the top 11 bosses to not die the longest belong to Vanilla, but it’s not because of boss mechanics that made it hard, it was what we the players had at that time at our disposal, which included terrible internet, 8 debuff slots, worse talents, weaker versions of the same gear, etc. etc.
Firemaw has been out for 15 years and we have all the information on hand. Compare freshly released content to freshly released content.
No one will ever in a million years will ague that Firemaw is more mechanically challenging than anything TBC and beyond, but it was certainly tough for its time. Not so anymore.
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At the mythic or even heroic level.
Yes it is a lot harder. There are a lot more mechanics and they can’t be ignored. There is also a lot more movement style mechanics.
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The fights nowadays in retail are a million times more mechanically challenging, but it’s really a different game. Players have a lot more tools at their disposal, they’ve been playing this game for years, and information is freely available. Vanilla had no discord, smaller servers, slower paced action, and less familiarity with WoW raiding.
As someone that raided in vanilla (got 7/15 in Naxx) and did mythic versions of some of the more recent raids (Legion and WoD, didn’t really bother with BFA) I can tell you that the difficulty is a lot closer than some people seem to think.
I guess what I’m trying to say is… people shouldn’t just look at the bosses in terms of “raid difficulty.” They should also look at the limitations placed on players (e.g., in vanilla, 8 debuff slots, less information freely available, inexperienced players).
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If retail players were progressing in classic raids without knowing threat mechanics and having no idea what abilities boss has and what loot tables are, BWL would have been a big wipefest.
Top world guilds had hundreds of wipes on vanilla’s hardest bosses, and they were not bad players at all.
One of the hardest bosses in vanilla was dial up connection tho.
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People still had dialup in 2006? Did you live in the boonies?
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No they didn’t.
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Ppl will say blah is hard because wipes is special.
Retail = new raid (no attempts)
Classic = 15years of knowing and pserver test realms. So, who knows how many wipe occurred before actual run.
Just like know method was able to do the hardest raid on retail with job at tanks. Which is impossible in classic.
Classic players have less self heals, aoe, Less mobility, less mitigation, mana issues, threat issues, more resistance/defs items to worry about.
Classic bosses have less mechanics
Retail players can self heal, mobility, mitigation and much more.
Bosses have more mechanics.
Retail most mechanics can be ignored in LFR/normal
To me currently classic raid are around normal to heroic difficulty.
Are they hard? To me no. Same as heroic raid in retail to me isn’t hard.
Then mythic is something else.
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Yes they did. His statement counts for all top world guilds past and present, encapsulates all of vanilla’s hardest bosses which shifted from dungeon bosses to raid bosses based at the time and date when content was released, first encountered and what guild was considered “top” at the time of said encounters.
Its easily believeable that the combined wipe counter for all top guilds (based on the time and place when they were considered to be the “top”) on all the different bosses (and the stages when they gave the most trouble) exceeded more than 200 in total.
You are wrong.
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No individual boss in Vanilla ever took hundreds of wipes for any individual top guild.
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yes but that is not what he said at all. So you are wrong.
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So if I said that “Top Retail guilds had tens of thousands of wipes on BfA’s hardest bosses.”
That would also be a correct statement?
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I would not know about anything concerning retail, nor do I give out my opinion wether such a statement was correct or not.
Im merely pointing out, mr. factman, that you are wrong, with your assessment of fixer’s statement.
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Okay, we’ll say it like this then.
Top world guilds had tens of thousands of wipes on BfA’s hardest bosses.
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Again, just pointing out your response:
is wrong.
Sure, no problem.
Top world guilds had tens of thousands of wipes on BfA’s hardest bosses.
Top world guilds had hundreds of wipes on Vanilla’s hardest bosses.
Cool.
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