High end raiding in retail is like playing bullet storm but with 25 players.
It’s hundreds in mythic not thousands…
Top guilds in vanilla still clicked and turned with their keyboard, it was a different time.
Its relative, obviously. I enjoy learning the raids in both. I would never try to generalize skill between the games despite the insane amount of wipes vs classic because its just silly.
WoW can be challenging for anyone, for a while: ymmv.
But lets not think this is some form of esport game requiring ultra high end skills. For those that have such skills: thank you for the awesome raid (which usually is a carry).
Game is set up to let you wipe like that though. How much time does 1 classic wipe vs 1 retail wipe cost?
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I know, read the posts the person I was responding to was making. I was being flippant.
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LFR isn’t raiding.
Yes. Theres almost as much prep outside of raid time(Neck levels,cloak,M+ etc) as there is in classic. Theres more mechanics to deal with and more chances things will go pear shaped.
The only thing that’s quantifiably more difficult in classic is herding 40 cats instead of 20-25.
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Your opinion is noted, and it has been put in the garbage bin
It’s not comparable since blizzard have deliberately changed the way wipes are handled.
I’m sorry, did I hurt your LFRer feelings?
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checks trash can sorry what was that?
In the two months it took us to progress on Mythic N’zoth, for eight hours per week, you could’ve gotten about eight or nine weeks’ worth of BWL, MC, and ZG clears and cleared all three of those raids in about four hours per week.
I’m not a Classic player, but I can see the appeal of Classic raids as something fun.
Normal bosses are far more mechanically-complex than even Classic’s most intricate fights, but they certainly aren’t challenging. Heroic bosses are leagues more challenging than anything Classic has to offer even now, and Mythic is an entirely different game because you’re playing more complex classes to the best of your ability to overcome some of the most complex bosses imaginable.
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Oh so you put it with all of yours then…
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Oh, flip away.
my opinions are actually facts, they dont deserve the trash can
LFR is equal to classic. Raids didn’t really get challenging until they added crazy mechanics like Vashj in TBC. The hardest part about old raids is getting 40 people to follow through with mechanics. In classic you can have people suck hard, fail, die and still beat bosses. TBC has a higher degree of difficulty with more mechanics and 40 people.
Wrath was arguably easier to raid at launch than TBC or Classic with Naxx if you had a group of competent players considering you only needed 10 players. Once Hardmode/Heroic Raids were introduced the difficulty started to scale up again…nowadays there are just way to many difficulties with Babies first Raid(LFR), Normal(Easy), Heroic(Normal) and Mythic(Hard).
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I can speak for normal and LFR in current raids, and it’s a crapshoot getting intelligent and dedicated people to stay in the raid and follow the advice of a designated leader.
Legion raiding was fun, old mog runs are fun, but this current NY’alotha is PITA and a few others earlier in BFA. Overall harder meaning people really need to understand their roles and watch for mechanics.
I haven’t raided classic content, but I feel like, having ran them solo on retail, it’s like you have to watchout for one mechanic…the levels really expect tanks to pull only so much and side things like resistances matter.
lfr nzoth, which is the lowest raiding difficulty in retail, is harder than anything in classic.
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Well retail has 4 difficulties right now.
So far classic raiding has been between the easiest and second easiest difficulties. It looks like AQ40 is going to start getting into the lower end of the third difficulty. So far nothing even comes close to the hardest difficulty.
It is demonstrably harder than anything you will ever see in Classic. Even Mythic Dungeons are harder than any raid you’ll ever see in Classic. A single Mythic BfA dungeon’s trash has more mechanics than MC and BWL combined.
The only real difference - aside from that you don’t need to grind your brains out for consumes and spend an hour of your time getting world buffs (instead your grind your brains out running Mythic keys and other stuff for gear and more tangible/permanent power creep) - is that Retail raiding is a lot more about personal accountability and mechanical execution, to the point of having built in cheat sheets that explain every single mechanic in detail so that players are literally down to “did you read the boss guide/can you remember all of these abilities and mechanics” and how well they play.
Classic raiding is difficult because, for whatever reason, the players are absolutely horrible at execution and dealing with a bunch of people behaving like children over loot becomes exhausting - to the point of burn out for leadership.
Go play Retail up to the point of doing even Normal raids and like Mythic +10 keys and you will not be able to look at anything in Classic seriously PvE wise. Press on into Mythic raiding and Mythic 15+ keys and you’ll spend most of your time in a Classic raid wondering how anyone is dying.
Being successful in Classic is more of a “I work a second job I don’t get paid for” experience if you follow the current meta. Being successful in Retail is a lot of repetition and feels more fast paced/streamlined for lack of a better term.
If someone tells you that Retail raiding is just “sitting in a queue” - I’d discount them as having never played past LFR, which is not Retail raiding, in my opinion. Getting past the LFR/Mythic +10 hump is a pain your first time over in Retail, finding a good guild is pretty much the key to not writing the game off as bad.
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I’ve been mythic raiding or playing Classic for the past 5 years.
Classic is beyond easy compared to anything thrown at you in the retail raids. Classic has less mechanics, the damage is less punishing, the bosses have dramatically less health, World Buffs totally trivialize the game.
In Classic, players have so many ways to accumulate insane character sheet power that’s just on another level compared to retail, even with the Corruption system. If you go into Retail and Classic raids, with the same level of relative preperation, you still have a challenging boss fight in retail. In Classic, you roll it over.
Last year I co-GMed and raid lead a Classic raid team for a bit, and honestly… The mechanics are trivial. The first time we went in there, I learned how to shotcall the entire raid 30 minutes before we started, because I’m a procrastinating trash can, and we got every boss down except Rag, which we couldn’t summon because our guild didn’t have the douses. The game’s a joke.
In retail, you grind and grind and grind to prepare for raids. You have to do so much stuff to even do baseline DPS. In Classic, any prep grinding over 0 will leave your character overtuned for the bossfight.
I quit classic 2 weeks after I lead the first one, because I was dismayed at just how easy it was, compared to personal experience on undocumented servers and to the community perception. I was anticipating some Naxx fights to offer a challenge for me. But after seeing MC, and how trivial it was, and how far off the mark my assumptions were on boss tuning, I decided I wasn’t gonna stick through years of subpar-raiding when I could be playing retail. I capped my Paladin on retail, and started my BfA grind in November.
Classic isn’t a hard game. It’s hard for your worst players not to ruin it for everyone else. Any difficulty at all in this game is self imposed dude to lack of preperation.
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You’re being way too generous here.
Even LFR is harder than classic raids. IT’s not even hyperbole. IT’s completely true.
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Flash back of 289 wipes on Fallen Avatar pre-nerf