You keep referencing systems that aren’t in the game yet.
When when heroic++ is in the game then you will do that to get into togc…
Currently you can’t do that so to get into the current raid you have to do heroic+…
I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting lost?
His argument was that heroic+ fails as a catch up mechanic because only geared people run it for badges.
We provide counter arguments he doesnt like because it doesnt fit his play style so we must be trolls.
I think I can see why he has problems getting into groups. Pity some people have so much anger pent up.
Because H+ gives an extra daily bonus, that’s the reason the majority of people are running. Just like they would be if H+ didn’t exist.
Which is true, most groups are just doing the daily for the extra badges and not willing to take people who actually can use the gear from it. This is made worse because currently T7 is actually a better catchup mechanic since it’s easier to get into and drops better gear. When H++ goes live same will apply with H++ and Ulduar.
I think H+ is a good idea to keep dungeons relevant the entire game rather than being dumped right after P1. The problem is the execution.
Heroic + is a bad system designed by ignorant game devs who couldn’t design a good system if their life depended on it. Sadly, their job doesn’t seem to depend on it either.
h+ was rarely ran outside the daily 2 months ago, when my shammy alt hit 80 it was stuck in no mans land between whatever quest and crafted gear i could get for myself and all the min/maxers wanting to do h+ forthe daily and nothing else. normal heroics were dead, h+ outside the daily was dead. Spending hours waiting for nothing at all was a common occurance
They are supposedly, finally, splitting the group finder into sections in the next big release. Though what alts are left after the epic ulduar long strangulation anyway?
nope.
it’s a modern invention.
People do heroic+ for badges.
Know what people did heroic back in the day for?
Badges.
Been using them for just that on my rogue recently, same with a few of my friends alts
But it also fails at that, people still just primarily do the daily which is what they would do regardless of H+.
Blizzard is apparently trying to up the ante even more by adding the ulduar hard mode loot available for a essentially a new badge type from H++. There’s probably going to be a few world tour H++ groups the first week or two patch launches because of that but that’s about it.
More accurately it’s a watered down version of a feature added long after in retail.
it’s not a bad idea for them to do H+ as a testing ground for future retail M+ additions…
The problem there being that, outside of PvP and without Dungeon Finder, there’s no reliable way to actually cross that bridge.
Except that most players aren’t going to be bringing the people who need the loot from the H+ bosses to the dungeon, they’re going to be bringing the people who are also just going for the badges. With my guild effectively being on life support and never really seeing a Heroic group in the couple of minutes I’ve been on recently, I’ve only managed to hit 3,694 GS, mostly because I wasn’t going to throw money away on BoEs that, while upgrades, had things like Block Value or other stats a Ret Pally doesn’t have use for.
The thing that stopped being done regularly months ago?
That’d be kind of wild, tbh, though it’d make the Elite quests in Icecrown a little too easy. 
Well, there’s also reputation grinding since the Championing system was introduced in Wrath…which, somehow, I’ve nearly hit Exalted with Kirin Tor just from doing the Cooking/Fishing dailies.
I would love to gear up through Heroic + but everytime I try to get in a group I’m told I need higher gearscore. I’ve already successfully completed a Heroic + and still I get told I need higher gearscore by 90% of players.
Yes. But if you are looking to catch up, especially in phase 3, it would be the best way. Not to mention if you are a tank planning to catch up you have to hit at least 535 to not get crit in heroics, but realistically 540 to not get crit in any content. There is really no good way to do this currently. Took a few breaks but I got to 80 today and I only have 477 defense.
Not to mention the whole “just buy cheap naxx and uld boe’s” like some people say to do isnt cheap at all.
Northern Barrier - 15k
Armor Plated Combat Shotgun - 729g
Bracers of Dalaran’s Parapets - 1k
Signet of the Accord - 400g
Runed orbs - 300g (x12)
Titansteel Bar - 100g (x10)
Cloak of the Iron Council - 2k
I havent even checked every slot but already not really a reliable method. If I didnt have a blacksmith already with the Uld patterns then I wouldnt have the Spiked Deathdealers or Indestructible Plate Girdle.
2 days I should have a 200 weapon. Might have enough quests in Icecrown to maybe also get a neck.
But if RDF was in I could just spam out heroics as much as I wanted, not take anyones loot, farm up badges for at least 10 slots right now, even more in phase 3, and then there is the ToC dungeon. When you need a catch up to get into the catch up… its a failure of a system.
Its not like we are asking to have a system like DF where you hit max level and then go undergrown and get almost 400ilvl.
Oh yes, I laughed heartily when they announced the Sons of Hodir tabard.
Where the hell is that gonna be used?
Nowhere. Its purely cosmetic at this point. Sons rep is probably the easiest rep to get to exalted, with 6? dailies and a spammable turn in.
A spammable turn in which you get exalted with for at most a couple hundred gold…
Yeah ive heard that before when it comes to “catch up” gear.