Yes I mean it just makes sense.
Usually 1-2 holy
1 prot
1 ret
Correct, but having an extra 2+k health from commanding shout makes you equally less likely to die as if you had divine guardian cutting that 10k hit by 2k
They are both keeping you alive by effectively raising your health for the hit. The only functional difference is that you can be healed up to reuse the extra health from Commanding Shout repeatedly, where DSac itâs just just there for that 6s burst of damage.
They arenât incomparable. They are both effective health, just like tanks treat mitigation and extra HP as two sides of the same thing. Sometimes DSac is bigger, sometimes commanding shout is.
People not dying when a DSac is used doesnât mean the DSac saved them. They have to drop pretty significantly low on health during those 6s to make it a raid saver.
It can absolutely make the difference between individuals surviving a burst or not, but so can and does Commanding Shout. It doesnât always do so unless you are undergeared for the mechanic and thatâs the only way youâll survive it (at which point youâll probably have both to layer the extra effective health)
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noneâŚjust like druid cats/bears
Donât know about you but I am playing a fury war at the moment and I am really enjoying it.
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Iâm rooting for you on Sunday to get that sword!
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Theres a reason you picked 10k health for your example which will never happen in game, no one has 10k max hp. As the numbers increase the value of dsac skyrockets. My point still stands no matter the hp or damage, with commanding shout you arenât preventing damage and in effect mana loss, with dsac you are. They are still incomparable.
If you have 1 fury warrior giving commanding shout in a 25man, what does it benefit the raid to have another warrior in any role vs a paladin in any role?
Damn does that mean you got it last Sunday bro !?
Yes, but Algalon is literally the hardest hitting boss in WotLK as far as raid damage is concerned, along with XT tantrums.
Nothing later on hits harder, so thereâs no skyrocketing of DSac value.
And the Mana loss of commanding shout is negligible given overheal percentages.
By the time you are talking putting rets in your raid, thereâs basically no value in another DSac or any other utility the ret brings beyond the first in nearly all situations.
Warriors arenât harmed by paladins being good healers, rets are harmed by them being good healers because it dilutes the value of Ret utilities.
Like warriors, rets are also harmed by prot being good, because prot also dilutes the value of Retâs utilities.
Each DSac you add to your raid isnât equally valuable because they donât overlap and they need giant damage events to be worth using. Thereâs a pretty steep diminishing return on them after 2 (which never requires a ret to obtain).
No, it was arbitrary. You can pick literally any number and itâll work the same way. Commanding Shout on a 25k health player will make a black hole explosions go from 100% of their HP to 92% of their health. The numbers are different, the trend is not.
It also helps players meet minimum HP requirements for them, because itâs unrealistic to expect a DSac for every single black hole explosion.
Got it 2 days ago! If you feel bad, know that this was the only one that dropped for us so far. In this entire patch.
Which means now they will drop like candy on Halloween for you I bet 
Congratz my man.
Candy on Halloween or turkey on Thanksgiving, Ret paladins eat them all 
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Everything is arbitrary or negligent unless its in favor of your narrative, classic. You can talk in circles all you like but you still cant compare these wildly different abilities, and you didnt answer my question.
And everything is just twisting logic unless itâs in favor of yours, classic!
You talk in circles all you like but these abilities are both serving the same purpose of keeping your raid alive from raid damage, and are situationally flip flop on which one is better at the job.
The fury can provide more raid DPS than any of the paladin specs from this point onward, and has interrupts, better stuns, more mobility, a small raid damage cooldownâŚ
So when you donât need extra raid survivability, you pick the warriorâŚ
Ret is higher than;
BM Hunters
Frost Mages
Sub Rogues
3 DPS specs
While I sympathize with PVP specs attempting to do well in PVE, I donât see Blizzard balancing them accordingly. Rogues, mages and hunters are all 3 pure DPS specs with alternatives.
Ret has only 1 spec for damage, and it is below the rest of the PVE specs as intended.
They more or less directly stated they would not balance those specs that they labelled PVP specs in the blue post for the ret buff. Those are all also pure DPS classes and are not subject to the same reasoning as was used for the ret buff.
However, with how stagnant PVP is regarding comps idk why they wouldnât want to breath fresh air into that part of the game via changes and balancing.
Yeah, I could get behind this.
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If theyâre going to start labelling things like specâs for specific uses, they should back that up with balancing and whatnot but, ya know âin a perfect worldâ and all.
Make it 5 point talent, with the âautoâ only being when it has 5 points into it (IE 20% per point) ?
That would ânerfâ the talent to placate the Blade complainers but should still keep pallies viable as a tank.
Which all have 2 different options for better raid DPS than ret. Ret lacked a DPS option outside of the DPS tier reserved for PvP specs that blizz didnât even try to make PvE viable.
OG rets were pretty powerful in pvp IIRC.
Not anymore. The kings are hpallies or that âpregâ pally I keep hearing about.