I do remember some of the broken highlights:
Divine Storm used to be Holy damage. Broken lmao
Vindication used to reduce all magical effects so it was essentially an alternative to Mortal Strike.
Seal of Blood or old Seal of Command (extra damage on stunned target)
Right now, Ret lacks survivability past 1800 rank. That’s why Preg is so good. Not gonna play Preg though.
PVPing on a warrior is still fun; I play both my warriors (this and my 79 twink) plenty. Rage is an incredible resource for long fights and Bladestorm packs a punch in 5s arenas.
Is it as faceroll on keyboard as PVE/PVP as a warrior was in vanilla/TBC? No.
But you find out who likes the class and who was playing it as FOTM in vanilla (and for glaives in TBC). Admittedly it’s tough not being anywhere close to the top of the meters (and being just above tanks) in a lot of fights.
Fury is still fun to play in PVE, especially for cleave situations where it still excels. Beyond that, obviously Arms struggles as DPS, but both specs bring decent buffs (though obviously other classes can bring those too with possibly higher DPS).
Not quite as many people playing melee now, so the spots aren’t as hard to fight for…
My guild is bringing 1 warrior to raids (just me) for the first time in the past 2+ years where we usually almost always had at minimum 3.
Our MT switched from his warrior to paladin after 2+ years (though might switch back at some point).
It does feel odd to be the only warrior in a 25 man raid after the past 3 years though.
Okay brother, you should instantly join Fightclub, Nightclub, Blightclub, and the druid discord.
You just redefined the defensive tank meta, by declaring that EHP is not a thing, and irrelevant for anyone.
Damage as a proportion of your absolute HP, also called EHP, is the most relevant of survivability there is. And thus both a DSAC and a commanding shout are absolutely comparable, since both of them increase the EHP of the targets under it.
They are still comparable. What would you prefer to have on XT hardmode 25 man, especially on lower HP numbers on the dps :
a) 3 Raidsacs
b) Comanding shout
you cant chose both.
If your answer is a), you have not understood the game.
Oh you are still on it.
Yes he can. Both are abilitys meant for better survivability.
Both are absolutely calculatable in EHP value for each person under the influx of the ability.
Actually they are far more easier to compare and far closer than most abilitys in the game are.
Don’t judge a book by it’s very gay cover.
It’s just a fun guild name, I only do pugs due to my erratic schedule so just made a guild to dump my characters in.
Fun fact, we got force renamed once, so i changed to until a lovely GM contacted me for a chat and changed it back to
It needs to be moved around enough that you can’t take all of the mitigation talents while also having access to all of the utility/threat from the ret tree, such as pursuit/crusade etc. It’s gotta be more than just 2 points difference. This would give the paladin a choice of going full mit, full threat or balanced specs like most other tanks have to do.
This is why I said it would be too disruptive to fix at this point as it requires moving around other talents too.
You apply sunders so rogues don’t have to.
I love my giant 2H axe
They probably would have if Blizzard started buffing and nerfing classes then though.
The way they have engaged in adhoc class balance patching in wotlkc has opened the door to this sort of thing.
This is why I think Blizzard should commit to a systematic balance agenda - set thresholds and monitor specs and classes against those thresholds. The only way to stop this situation getting out of hand is to have a fair transparent approach to managing class balance - not one that is adhoc and driven by “player feedback”. It’s not just an issue for trying to achieve balance but also for whether the process is perceived to be fair. I think that you could definitely set up a metric that would have shown that Ret should be buffed and UH should be nerfed - and apply that consistently across all classes. But instead of doing that Blizzard basically announced they would do so as an adhoc change due to popular demand and would now close the door on it - that’s a bad look that literally invites frivolous buff begging on the forums.
It’s not just Warriors, it’ll be just about any class or spec that thinks they can put enough community pressure on Blizzard to get a buff or get others they compete with nerfed.
Once it becomes public property driven by community feedback we have chaos. Because everyone will want to get themselves a leg up. The players are the last people to consult about how to fairly balance the game. It’s like trying to curb child obesity by asking the kids if they should have more ice-cream…
Thats actually already the case. You cant go full mitigation + utility/threat.
Not even remotely close actually, you´d need like 10 more talent points for that.
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/paladin/-05005135200142321333312321-501322012
Thats the spec i currently use on my 2 tankpallys.
It has all the defensive and mitigative aspects, including the debuffs. Especially useful in 10 man raids, since you dont necessarily have others consistenly applying all of those (and one of the major strenghts of protpallys is their ability to be able to apply the debuffs passively).
Theres exactly 1 “free” talent point, the 4/5 point in Reckoning.
I cant get pursuit AND crusade, i had to decide wich i take - i took pursuit.
If i really would have the option to go for thread and mitigation all in one, i would need:
5 more points for Seals of the pure in the holy tree
5 more points for conviction
3 more points for crusade
1 more point for reckoning
(potentially 3 more points for sanctity of battle aswell)
(potentially another 6 more points for AM)
So im atleast 14 talentpoints away from being all in one.
I often switch and adjust talents.
My mainpally even has a secondary tankspec with Aura Mastery, a relic from the Mimiron Hardmode progress
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/paladin/-05005135200142311333311311-502300212013
This would be an example of going for a thread focused spec (my parse spec to grind the 99s for all of t7 content)
See how you dont have vindication, lack 1 point in JotJ, miss 3% spelldmg reduce from Guarded by the light, and wont get full mana due to heal from spiritual attunement (which is big on Vexxas)
Ret is a pvp spec!
Ret is a pvp spec
Sorry, but it’s both PVE/PVP, and that’s Blizzards official stance.
Only the pure DPS classes, or classes that have multiple options for DPS have designated PvP specs.
And if ret is supposed to be the good PvP spec for paladins, Blizz failed pretty terribly there, given that holy, and a prot hybrid perform better.
Warrior contributions to a raid:
You have to be an absolute clown to compare warrior representation compared to paladin representation without factoring in that paladins can heal and are arguably the most desired healer.
i have never heard of those abilities
Just wanted to check back in here and add that the current #1 and #3 25m uld speed runs both solo tanked with a prot warrior, using a bear OT for alg.
No prot pally in the raid.
Sorry but we’re not talking about the less than 1% that want to pretend they’re doing a mythic plus…
We’re talking about the everyday raid team.
You know the other 99%
Oof, this comment is dripping with envy.
Like it or not, these players are currently ‘the best’ by any measurable metric at classic wow, and they choose to use a prot warrior sometimes. They spend incredible amounts of time deliberating over their raid comp, every choice matters when you’re going for the fastest clear time in the world. It shows clear value for prot war in high performance environments, in context of the forum thread titled ‘what benefit is there to playing warrior’ it’s pretty damn relevant.