This diskussion is useless tbh, theres guys like you with valid arguments and sound resoning, but there is too much of the trolls and the vile creatures of pure envy and hatred like bladetsar.
But i really appreciate the points you made in this thread, was nice to read someone that actually brings up good and balanced points into a diskussion.
I donât want to give him too much of a hard time, heâs likely faced difficulty getting raid spots, like my warrior has, because too many people buy into the metagoblin style youtube/reddit memes of warriors being useless simply because they are not paladins. Bring paladins or your raid will fail etc. Itâs just not true, but many do not wish to think critically and instead just want to be comfortably told X is better than Y so therefore I should only ever use X or I am griefing my raid.
Yeah thats the only point i also agree with him. People are mindless meta slaves.
I mean my mainraid is the living prove that warriors can be easily brought to and contribute to raids. We have on average 3 warriors in 25man raids, most of our 10 man raids have 2.
Thats because we care more about the players we´ve played with since vanilla classic, and less about the meta.
Did not stop us from clearing the content.
But yeah, random groups insisting in protpallys for 10man ulduar is kinda bulldroppings.
Especially those runs that explicitly search for all hardmodes without algalon, where i cant even understand why they then would need a protpally if they dont plan to do algalon, the 95% reason to even have one^^.
But thats the meta slave mentality, sadly.
Wow almost like me making the thread lead to some discussion. Maybe you can direct your angst towards the ret paladins that are coming in here claiming we donât need balance discussions at all?
This is true, but the highest damage raid stuff is all in this pre-nerf Ulduar.
The need for timed DSacs to survive things significantly drops off in later tiers because they werenât arbitrarily badly tuned.
None of the icecrown bosses are hard because the boss does a ton of raid damage all at once. There are only a few bosses that even have a mechanic DSac is particularly useful for, and you certainly wonât need a ret for extra coverage for them.
Algalon is really the only fight where you need a bunch of DSacs. Itâs the only place multiple DSac is particularly relevant in this expansion⌠And even then, far more groups were taking fury warriors for commanding shout than rets for another DSac.
Even as Commanding becomes a lower % gain of a total health pool, none of the upcoming mechanics are built to kill people because it deals more than total player health pools (or the vast majority of them) to the raid in incredibly short time-frames, which also makes DSac worse.
So yeah, commanding shout gets relatively weaker over time, but DSac is dependent on damage patternsâŚ
Most rets will likely spec out of DSac for more damage in the later tiers, probably replacing it with aura mastery, maybe improved lay on hands as well. The upcoming raid mechanics arenât really built to need chained DSacs, and your holy/prot paladins cover it just fine (unless they do something like never put in the scaling ICC buff I guess)
Pre-nerf Ulduar (and Algalon, who stays the hardest hitting fight in the game) is the only reason DSac is particularly strong right now. Commanding Shout is pretty much always good, even if it does drop off a bit in relative health gains. DSac does as well, because the damage pattern determines how strong it is, and none are comparable to Algalon.
And drums give an 8% version of kings if you need it, do the paladin exclusive benefit is 2% stats.
In the absolute worst ways.
Nah, I think there needs to be balance discussions, but mostly centered on the badly tuned pre-nerf Ulduar raid making stacking raid cooldowns more important than it will be in any later phase, and Algalon being made too favorable to paladins over other tanks unlike most of the rest of them in there, or any later ones.
Look bro, i never disagreed with protpally having an edge over other tanks. Also never disagreed that buffing other tanks or adjusting raids would be good.
Its just your insane hatred on rets that makes it really hard to read anything from you and react in a constructive way. I dont get that, and im not even a ret - im a prot thats open for prot nerfs / buffs for other tanks, even welcoming buffs for others.
Because Paladins were fine, Pld are NOT meant to be a top dps not even middle, they are protectors buffers with dps, all DPS classes and specs should be way above pld, but for whatever reason you whined and they gave you buffs the servers are already 17%+ pld now and 20% DK 2 classes taking over almost 50% of the playerbase is preposterous!
For clarity
I suppose it all depends on how you look at it.
If you see yourself as a Raider, then the benefit you bring is shouts (which Commanding Shout is decent), fairly decent DPS, and debuffs you can apply to mobs/raid bosses.
If youâre looking at this from a I am playing a Video Game and Raiding is a by-product of thatâthen you play what you enjoy and who cares about the rest?
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Weird interpretation of facts there. By the time commanding shout is noticeably a weaker % of player health, fury DPS will be much higher.
So⌠Where ret currently is?
Do they need to be below the bottom of the barrell to justify having utility? Because thereâs utility and buffs all the way up the DPS meter.
They arenât even the only DPS with a defensive raid cooldown, as unholy death knights have AMZ which while a bit more limited in what it works against is far more potent against magic damage.
Shadow priests and boomkin deal more damage and have healing cooldowns through hymn/tranq. Both also bring buffs.
But yeah, just continue the random ret hate because prot paladins are too good.
You only need 1 warrior for commanding shout, you can stack paladins for dsac. They are also in no way comparable in effect, you donât take % less damage from having more health. Commanding shout is good for what it does, it can definitely save you by letting you take a little bit more damage but lets not compare it to the infinitely more useful defensive.
Keep fighting the good fight Bladetsar, paladins in their ivory towers donât know what its like as a warrior trying to find a group right now, meta has overtaken the game.
You should check the weekly logs, most specs are above Ret still.
This so much.
You do, in a sense.
10k damage is 100% of 10k health, and only 83% of 12k health. It has to be healed back through healer Mana, but it shrinks the damage as a proportion of your total HP. They are pretty much equal in defensive value right now due to one having a 100% uptime, and the other requiring class stacking in order to completely cover dangerous mechanics.
And yeah, you can stack DSacs, itâs fairly uncommon that it is needed, or particularly useful though. Even on the small number of fights where it is solid to do so, itâs also rare that the needs arenât covered by Holy/prot, and you wouldnât take a sub-bottom tier DPS for an extra.
The game just doesnât make an announcement for every time Commanding Shout was the difference between life and death, so you assume it has low value, while you are assuming every DSac is a life saver (itâs not).
No wonder you cant find a raid. Your plannin a class dripping with utility lol
The way you type and how precise it all is along with the way you speak is so professional.
Then I look at your guild name.
Confused.jpg
Warrior is fine, unless youâre trying to world first something. The optics are out of whack because of streamers and meta rankings which really shouldnât impact normal players much.
No, your example is mental gymnastics, you still take 10k damage regardless whether you have commanding shout on or not. Damage as a proportion of your hp is irrelevant, thats still 10k to be healed by the healers. Dsac actually reduces damage, you cannot compare the two.
I never said commanding shout is low value, I said it is good for what it does and it does save the raid in a lot of situations. It will not save you from tantrum on XT though, dsac is useful for those burst raidwide situations, amazing for progression.
Its weird you assume Iâm talking about ret when Iâm talking about paladin as a whole. Also yes every dsac is a raid saver, I can visibly see the damage reduction watching the healthbars, and no one dies.
Dsac is just pretty common since most raids have 3-4 pallies.
Indomitable and Ignore Pain?
I wonder why paladins are so overrepresented in raid comps⌠Clueless