I tend to agree, though I think in certain situations Dsac comes in more handy. A perfect if unfair example would be XT HM tantrums
Sure, one dsac is only available for half of them though, commanding is always there, passively, without needing to be called or spend a GCD on. To cover all the big scary mechanics you need 2-3 paladins, commanding is 1 warrior.
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Touche. Commanding Shout is just good in general. Who is going to say no to free HP?
I just like concept of a basic human warrior in a land full of magic and monsters.
Hopefully you enjoy playing whatever class you swapped to more than youāve enjoyed playing warrior so far. I hope that everyone who plays this game enjoys their time playing and feels fulfillment doing so.
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It doesnāt matter āWhat thereās space forā in the roster. The point is that ret paladins were crying over such a āsmall buffā as Serrannah puts it.
The fact is the disparity between Prot Paladin utility and the rest of the tanks is such that it should have been the first thing to be addressed in discussions of balancing.
Prot paladin utility increasing across the phases will only compound the issue.
Other than AD, which weāve already established is the main overpowered talent, and dsac, which weāve established is strong but comparable to commanding shout, what other unique utility is there that outweighs the other options from warrior so severely?
Iād like to avoid discussing ret if possible please, Iām only really interesting in tanking. Itās still a garbo spec even after the minor buff (which made no changes to gameplay, just numerical changes) and will stay that way until they get their ICC set bonus. Ironically, itāll be the same time that fury becomes relevant.
You compare dsac to commanding shout and ignore that they have another ability called Divine Guardian?
Then thereās Divine Protection. Which even you admitted requires worse warrior talents and glyphs (which paladins donāt need) to even be comparable.
So those three. AD, Divine protection, Divine Guardian (which scales across the expansion better). Any one of those is better than commanding shout and shield wall objectively. Actually four- they get buffs, kings on me translates to a 10% stam increase, which is actually a bigger buff than commanding shout. And again, as itās a percent increase, itāll scale better as the expansion continues.
My only reasoning for bringing up Ret is because the ret paladins in this thread seem to think itās irrelevant to this discussion about rebalancing classes.
Dsac includes Divine Guardian, everyone cancels the sac part to use the Divine Guardian part. Divine Guardian is the 20% reduc for 6 seconds I am referring to.
Everyone calls it dsac because that is the name of the ability, Divine Guardian is the ābolt onā talent which gives it the 20% reduction.
Itās one ability.
Yes, after you talent and glyph it (like you should, what else are you taking? you donāt need threat) they are almost exactly the same (10% vs restrictions on usage).
Kings comes from all paladins, not just prot, come on. What raid are you in with no paladins?
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All other things equal, the kings buff plays into effect. To suggest there will always be another paladin is just underpinning what Iām saying- Theyāre overly represented.
In isolation, the kings buff factors.
Back to three then.
Thatās what Iāve been saying this whole time, but Bladetsar wants to nerf Prot pallies because Ret got buffed, because the situation is now āunfairā.
If you manage to convince him to drop his crusade against us, good luck. I think youāll have an easier time burning water.
No it isnāt at all what youāve been saying, now youāre just lying. You suggested that I was being spiteful towards ret paladins by suggesting they whined to get rebalanced and the truth is they have. Any discussion around balancing is therefore justified. Describing that as fact is not irrelevant.
You were trying to shut down the conversation on that basis. That somehow talking about Ret paladins in the discussion of rebalancing is unjustified.
Disgusting lies coming out of your mouth.
Awkward.
To Bigchad, as an argument in good faith, do you think thereās any way of balancing AD without gutting it?
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My argument wasnāt that it was undeserved for balancing but because WoTLK doesnāt need balance changes.
Lie more.
No.
But i honestly dont think its necessary.
Its only algalon where it even matters, and only because blizzard decided to go full r. mode there, buffing the dmg output of an already hardhitting boss.
Outside of algalon where bad RNG can just delete you (who is not welcoming a hitline of 3x MH+OH+2 abilitys in 2,5 seconds, thanks for nothing) you dont even feel AD to be a thing.
I basically never proc outside of algalon, and im also never in low hp territory where i would rely on the other effect of reduced dmg. Maybe Council HM sometimes.
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i am wondering if people wrote these posts two years ago when everyone was a warrior and a mage in vanilla classic
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Ok, purely as an exercise, as I said I before i think itās too disruptive to change.
AD is two majorly impactful talents rolled into one, the talent should be split, the damage reduction in one part and the cheat death in another. This would make it equal to the DKās will of the necro and force some kind of decision making. DKs and warriors have to make the decision to go with a threat or mit build, because of how strong AD is in one talent they can take all the threat stuff from ret too, including pursuit of justice/crusade etc, there is no player agency required.
Keep the ability as it is, but make it more costly to spec and make threat/utility from ret out of reach if you do take all of the mitigation talents from prot.
Encouraging player agency is always better than just flat nerfing/buffing abilities and making that decision for them.
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A hybrid class that performs all 3 roles will of course be more represented than other classes.
If youāre going to use kings as a reason why prot pallys are so OP, I will counter with sunder armor.
Yes, rogues can expose, but itās more costly and disruptive for them to do so. We can also just get Kings buff from a scroll off the AH lol.
Tell that to warlocks 
I guess to use warlocks as an analogy for this discussion.
What benefit is there to playing a mage/hunter/boomkin/spriest/ele shaman? Warlocks are OP and perform better than these roles in a vacuum if you ignore all other factors and do a foolish 1v1 comparison without considering any raid comp or mechanic factors.
Iām rerolling 3 warlocks.