You don’t have to is the point. Ret paladins were buffed because they whinged, Blizzard set the precedent.
There is exactly no benefit at all.
Trololololololo
You troll but nobody has said anything beyond: Commanding shout, faster runs (obviously where the healers are overgeared so for past content), PvP and the notion that Well my raid once had a warrior/dk combo and we did Algalon so that makes it ok, nevermind that the other 95% of runs insist on Prot Paladin MT because it’s broken
You’ve already admitted to rerolling to the hottest new thing. Your opinion really has little merit at this point.
I played Paladins when they were straight toilet tier garbage (Vanilla and WoTLK Naxx). You, on the other hand, gave up when things got tough and did what you accused others of doing.
Give it up Bladetsar. You lost, not because of your class, but because of yourself.
Quote me where I admitted that.
I started Warrior in WoTLK prepatch. Were they the “Hottest new thing” from then on? I must’ve missed the Ret Balance memo.
Paladins shouldn’t have an opinion after being buffed undeservedly.
Right there. Don’t tell me you’re leveling him just to farm Strat/Scholo all day lolol
I’m leveling a Paladin, barely. I also wish I didn’t have to but the writing’s on the wall if you want to MT for the rest of the expansion.
Guilds won’t take on warriors as their MT, regardless of skill. I’ve had runs put a 4.2 prot paladin ahead of a 4.7 prot warrior (and me into fury) just so they can get them geared. They’d take multiple wipes just so they can have the possibility of a prot paladin being their MT.
Also what is your point, that Paladin has created such a role vacuum by being overpowered in two highly-sought specs that people actually have to flock to them to get raid spots consistently? I’m surprised you even brought it up given that’s the implication.
Let’s all just play Paladins, Blizz clearly isn’t going to fix anything until Paladins are 60% of the playerbase.
My point is:
1.) You’re whining and rerolling to the new hot thing like you’ve accused others of doing
2.) Instead of sticking to a class I assume you loved, you took the short cut and gave up.
3.) I should mention that surprisingly, we have 0 Prot paladins in our guild. Our 25m progression is meh, but we got Algalon down in 10m. Without a Pally tank.
It’s possible, but instead of attempting to perservere, you gave up.
And these reasons are why your opinion is irrelevant.
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I don’t care, whining is what got rets their buff in the first place. My paladin is actually my third alt, I just brought it up to demonstrate how much of a power vacuum has been created by paladin’s overtuning.
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I still play Warrior, it’s still my main.
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You’d have an easier time with a Prot Paladin. Everyone else has figured this out except your guild it’d seem.
I didn’t give up on anything.
You’re a paladin. Your opinion is biased and therefore more irrelevant.
You’re not fooling me, this isn’t an experiment, its a reroll.
Nope, not buying it.
Maybe, but people want to play what they love, and we still win doing it.
And that’s how I know you’ve given up.
clearly exhausted from beating a dead horse
Are you sure we need to keep beating it paw-paw?
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Deadbeats. Dead horse. Beating a horse.
All seems to check out XD
It’s a level 52 paladin. It’s not doing Naxx before my other 73 and 72 alts.
You’re clutching at straws now on this strawman you’re creating.
I’ll let you determine how much I’ve given up based on the posts I make.
Either revert the ret paladin buff, or rebalance across the board.
My Warrior killed Algalon. You opted to roll a Paladin first.
That lets me know whos opinion is more relevant.
Your replies are getting low-effort now and are based around deflecting the topic of ret paladin buffs (in a conversation about buffs and nerfs).
Congrats, you look like a fool.
I’m not sure what you’re looking for from this thread, yes, paladin tanks are overall more desirable largely due to ardent defender. If AD didn’t exist I would say warriors would be more desirable due to their superior cooldowns. It’s just this one single really overpowered ability and it would be too disruptive to change it. All other factors are minor, even dsac, which is comparable to commanding shout in terms of value (20% dmg reduc for 6 seconds vs ~10% health passively).
Anyone bringing a 4.2k ppal over a 4.7 warrior, assuming all other variables the same, is suffering a TBI. I have a feel you’re projecting other factors onto us by screeching about how useless your warrior is, look outside of the talent tree and think about some other reasons.
I will add though that generally the top % of players don’t stick to one class, they play everything because classes are just pegs to fit in their respective holes, not your entire identity. The game is shockingly easy and learning simple game mechanics can essentially teach you how every class works to a high level. Don’t limit yourself for emotional reasons, just play the game.
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Yeah I can guarantee a lot of people playing locks already have the next FOTM class lined up for TOGC/ICC
This is just completely false. Divine Guardian isn’t matched by any other ability and is hugely desirable. Prot paladins if OT-ing can go ret and bring dsacs, also which abilities do warriors have that are superior to paladins?
Divine Protection is on a lower CD for only 10% less damage reduction. Its talents are objectively better as the cooldown reduction for both Paladin and Warrior is 30s per talent point. However 1minute reduction (2/2) for Paladin on a 3 minute cooldown is 33% reduction, whereas a Warrior 1 minute reduction (2/2) on a 5 minute cooldown is a 20% reduction in CD.
Not only that, the talent gives Paladins 4% stamina.
Which cooldowns are superior?
I’m going to focus on alg here as it’s frankly the only difficult fight where tank choice is important.
Can you not see how 20% reduction for 6 seconds is comparable to ~2k passive health (10% for most people) to the entire raid? Multiple paladins are required to cover multiple aoe mechanics, only a single warrior is needed to cover that health buff for the whole fight, it’s a very valuable and unique class buff, overlooked because it’s passive. (also provides the warrior utility, spammable for ranged/aoe threat without LoS).
Assuming your wall is specced and glyphed like it should be, they’re both 12sec duration 2 minute CD with pallys gaining 10% reduction in exchange for not being able to use it with forbearance or within 30secs of wings, warriors have no such restrictions.
Warriors shield block is a 10 sec duration 1 min CD 100% block chance and value buff, paladins holy shield is spammable and same duration but only provides 30% block, 8 charges and gives no block value buff. It’s not a cooldown.
4 set tier also provides 20% magic damage reduction to warriors for the whole duration, overall a very valuable CD for alg.
Warriors have last stand, there is no such CD for paladins. You can combine this with the minor CD enraged regen for a chunky heal.
With safeguard specced (alg spec) you can intervene to your OT every to give them 30% dam reduc for 6 seconds every 30 seconds, as well as taking a hit for them. Very valuable for alg and comparable to hand of sac.
Vigilance is a passive, free, spammable and superior hand of salvation. You can put this on your OT for alg to allow you to spam taunt alg for swaps (resists) and spam taunt the adds, valuable utility.
Warriors also have higher base health than paladins, with ~ equal gearing and full buffs my warrior consistently has had ~3k more health than my paladin.
Warriors can instantly and reliably apply 100% uptime AP reduction in AOE, paladins cannot do this reliably via vindication. Thunderclap effect also exists passively but is generally covered by DKs so less valuable.
shattering throw is a useful raid DPS CD that is unique to warriors.
A minor one, but disarm is useful against most nasty trash mobs, such as whirlwinders, paladins cannot disarm.
Shockwave reliably AOE stuns, useful offensively and defensively, paladins only have HOJ, conc blow is a secondary stun.
Paladin’s ardent defender is the only real big stand-out here that is just vastly superior to everything, DK’s get half of the ability in their will of the necro talent and it’s missing the most important part (cheat death), even then will of the necro is still really really good. It really shows how overpowered ardent defender is. Without AD everything else would be pretty balanced.
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We’ve only met and I’m starting to respect you. You should listen to this guy Blade, he knows his stuff on tanking.
For my kill, we needed both Commanding Shout and Pally cooldowns to survive the star explosions. Without either, we would not have succeeded.
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