Wait a second… group that tried to genocide them… are you refering to Arthas and the scourge, who almost genocided them when claiming the Sunwell, who then seperated and became the Forsaken… who are part of the Horde.
Or do you mean Garithos, the Grand Marshal of the Kingdom of Lordaeron… who are know knowen as the Forsaken… wait a moment… Thats the Horde
Ok, maybe you mean the orcs who invaded Azeroth and tried to genocide all the native races? oh wait… thats Horde too…
Or could it be the trolls who tried to Genocide them when they first arrived in Eversong Forest… no… Trolls are horde too.
Ok you have me stumped, which Genocide are you refering to here? Because every answer comes back to the Horde…
The species High Elf should be lowercase… and the High Elves aren’t a single faction but a couple of different groups, many of which have had their story concluded or probably have other plans aside from becoming playable.
That aside the last night’s hysterics are over and this should probably be in the mega thread.
Alliance high elves also include the Silver Covenant and the Exiles as well as a small group (not a faction) living in Stormwind… a few portal trainers and mages.
You are aware that following Kael’thas’ teachings some High Elves did not want to practice siphoning? Yes? That’s fairly common knowledge.
Were you aware that they did not abandon Quel’thalas intentionally? That Lor’themar Theron exiled those who would not because he didn’t ”want to lead a nation divided?”
They didn’t “abandon” anyone. They claimed to not want to suck the magic from living beings “like vampires” and as a result they were exiled. They didn’t abandon anyone, they were forcibly ejected from their homes.
Lor’themar had become accustomed to the mockery of those he could not please, but he had not fully anticipated the pointed sting that Renthar’s laugh elicited. Even Aurora’s face, normally so controlled and serene, flushed deeply with undisguised contempt.
“Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires.” Renthar began to rise from his seat, leaning across the table, truly shaking with rage. “And now you want to offer aid? After all we have been through, you come now? After what the Horde did to us in the name of that bastard human who called himself ranger? How blind do you think I am, Lor’themar? I should kill you. I should kill you and send Sylvanas your head!”
High Elves will NEVER be part of the alliance as playable race because elves are the reason the horde is a populated faction, giving pale elves to the alliance will make horde’s populaton fall drastically
no, im talking about the alliance who tried to kill then and their prince in Dalaran.
But sure, try to Blame the undeads who were mindcontroled by the alliance, that later, with the ranger general fo silvermoon save then against the last remants of the scourge.
Garithos isn’t a forsaken
And not all the alliance of lordaeron become the forsaken dear.
again you show yourself as rly ignorant about the lore, the trolls who fought elves in the past are the amani, forest trolls, the horde trolls are Darkspear, jungle trolls, and they were kicked out by their lands by the humans.
Ah so you ARE talking about the alliance of Lorderon. who are not part of the current alliance the High elves have joined, but are infact part of the horde under the name of the Forsaken.
The forest trolls… who were part of the horde during the second war when they marched against Silvermoon city. I know who the Forest trolls are, and even now the remaining Forest Trolls are under a banner of the Zandalari… who, joined the Horde.
So, The bloodelves have allied with:
Orcs (who tried to genocide them)
Trolls (Who tried to genocide them)
forsaken/People or lorderon (Who tried to Genocide them)
Right got it, think its clear who the traitors are.
You are overly focused on the High Elves as having abandoned the Blood Elves, even in the face of the Blood Elves having straight up exiled the High Elves.
The entire reason they didn’t want to drain mana from those wyrms was because of what it did to the wyrms. They did not want to kill those wyrms, to become like vampires, just to survive. The High Elves knew they could use baubles, lifeless sources of arcane to gently meter themselves.
They were right, too. They did survive. They didn’t need to siphon. Whether siphoning itself was right or wrong isn’t important. Both sides had their own opinion, and both sides survived using their own opinion.
One side didn’t abandon the other, it was a mutual dissolution on the grand scale. In part the exiled, in part those who stayed away rather than be exiled. Neither side agreed and it wasn’t budging.
Or are you suggesting that the High Elves should have gone home to be properly exiled where they’d be without meaningful resources? That staying in Dalaran, knowing they’d be exiled anyway, where they’d have the best chance of survival was “wrong.”
All you’re ultimately saying is that 10% of the population disapproved of the other 90% and chose not to engage them. They chose not to for moral, personal, reasons. Those who tried to argue their case were exiled, and the rest merely left. They weren’t respected, their opinions were rejected, and they themselves were being cast out. Of course they left.
You’re overly focused on the Blood Elves being “right.” Morality and events aren’t black and white like that. Both sides did what they thought was necessary for their own survival. Don’t act like doing what it takes to survive is both morally correct and morally incorrect when it’s not to your liking.
When it comes to ingame lore, you could be right. Idk really as I’ve never bothered with it that much.
What makes sense to me is that HE is a title given to royal born, yet all the elves are the same except for that but that’s me.
Blizzard confused the issue because the original models of HE’s were NE models. Idk if that was before they made BE’s or not but if it was before then that explains why.
Anyway, I think eventually those who want HE’s will get them, they’ll probably look like NE’s with blue eyeballs and be on the alliance and they’ll probably be introduced to the playerbase in a not too far off expac where they will feature, probably being discovered on an island somewhere previously hidden because they retreated from all the dramarama / they’re guarding something horrible.
After that expac or during, the playerbase will be able to play one however they’re hands will always be so huge that they’ll be able to rip their own heads off and I think that’s a primo talent.
We have to remember, regardless of title, royal bloodlines, stuff like that we’re all just murderhobos in the end.
Yeah those alliance high elves were in vanilla, and the bloodelf model wasn’t added till Burning crucade. Sylvanas used to use an edited Nightelf model too back then.
As per blizzard own words, and Metzen himself, its the same alliance Dear, sorry to break this for you.
Evn in wow, the alliance with stormwind as the center, send dwarves and night elves saboteurs to the blood elves disguised as emissaries to destroy their mana sources
but of course, this is not remembered.
who where, are not anymore, don’t try to spin your mistake in this one.
Nope.
They didn’t, orcs barely scratch their magic shield
Dark spear and zandalari never tried to genocide then, only the amani, because blood elves steal their lands.
You know Arthas and the scourge were all humans and they also belonged to the alliance right?
the dead have nothing to blame since they are mind controled, and the forsaken SAVED the rest of the elves from the remains of the scourge
Where was the alliance when Arthas was killing the elves?
Where was the alliance when the elves where trying to survive after their attack?
where are the alliance to help the elves in the years to come?
The alliance ignored then for years and send saboteurs only yhe horde went to help then, do you realize that? without the horde the elves would be exctinct, and their kingdom fall completely to the scourge
The horde help then and help then to rebuild while the alliance ignored and stab then in the back
yep, the ones who left their people and kingdom to lick alliance boots
Yep and like so many others, that’s why I thought HE’s were just a snotfaced elevated version of BE til I learned that Sylv used to be NE.
When they changed that, it added all kinds of confusion but the thing is it’s a story.
It’s Blizzards story and they can do what they want with it. I really do think people will get HE’s eventually.
Technically there is not a High Elf faction. There is a Silver Covenant faction of the Kirin Tor and there is also a High Vale faction. Those are made up of High Elves. There are also rando High Elfs that have joined other Alliance factions.
Again, you are deflecting with something already addressed, Lorthemar only exiled the elves of quel’lithien, because they are causing turmoil and doing and borderline terrorism, in a kingdom in ruins he could not rule with this kind of division
The exiles still had supplies provided and after the situation was resolved they were invented to come back, they didn’t, and surprised, they became wretched, because their own hypocrisy.
The other left on their own.
[quote=“Atalanta-trollbane, post:50, topic:492091”]
The entire reason they didn’t want to drain mana from those wyrms was because of what it did to the wyrms . They did not want to kill those wyrms, to become like vampires, just to survive.[/quote]
thats juiciest bit of hypocrisy you could ever find, and thats why your narrative don’t work.
In the game don’t we all kill animals to eat? don’t we all kill enemies who invade our lands or tried to kill us? why they have to be so hypocrite and pedantic about those poor, poor little wyrms when tons of life are in jeopardy?
those sources were not enough to sumply an entire kingdom in ruins, dear lord, children and old were dying, they had to use what they had, sorry if again, not everyone husband is leader of a magic city with tons of “lifeless” source of mana to feed
Again, they had to chose to drop their own ego, and use the wyrms and survive, than listen to the hypocrites and all die because they hadn’t enough mana.
Thats a completely disingenuous, point. They weren’t right, The elves need the siphon, the ones who run away didn’t need because they indeed had the mana, they didn’t survive because their philosophy, they did survive because they run into the humans kingdoms where they had all the arcana source they could get
Butt sadly, in their home, where life were in jeopardy, no one in the alliance came to help, no one came to bring the “lifeless source” of mana
one side could just lick human boots in dalaran by example, because their leader had a elf wife, the others could not.
one side knew they had to do so the majority could survive, the other side rather their people die than drop their own ego and others because they were completely fine with plenty of resources.
they should have stick with their people and do what its take for then to survive, not abandon then because they were “grossed” out by killing mere wyrms.
Yes those rougly 10% left because they are hypocrite and egocentric.
Thats cute, you are trying to spin the argumment, they didn’t tried o argue, it snot the case of they weren’t respect or opinions rejected, you can just use simple logic to resolve this statement.
Why the blood elves would simple kick out the high elves if they just didn’t want to use the mana wyrms? thats sound strange isn’t? maybe because that was not just what they did? if they were just there, not using the mana wyrms, they not be kicked out.
Why they would reject a solution if it was valid solution? maybe because it was not a valid solution and could not be done? because its literally what it is, it was not vallid or possible.
Without siphoning the mana wyrms they would have died and overuned by the remains of the scourge, the elves causing turmoil were not helping and only making the situation worse, there was no mana crystals objects enough to feed the entire population, of course a small group, less than 10% would survive with those small resource or go to dalaran and get all they want
Because they are.
Then how can you paint the high elves as morally supeprior by being loyal and purists?
except one side had only one choice, the other had the golden opportunity to feed in dalaran, and claim the moral highground where their people were dying.
Abandoning their people in time of need because they had to use a resource while ou have tons for your own to live nice and easy its pretty morally incorrect to my view.
After all these years the ANTI-High Elf crusade makes no sense. It literally must be faction loyalty/animosity to the tenth degree. One wants something (Alliance) so the other (Horde) will make every conceivable case for it not to be permitted.
This seems to be basically it. Seems like a group of anti-high elf players who just refuse to accept that there is a difference and it would easilly be plausable if the Dev’s wanted to do it.
I mean, if the game mechanically distinguishes a difference between High Elves and Blood Elves, then there is 100% a divide and its 100% possible to implament.
Lor’themar made a single trip to Quel’lithien lodge after their banishment. It was also his first offer of aid since their banishment. They were not provided aid at all during the five years between banishment and his arrival. After the Sunwell was restored.
They didn’t become wretched because they lacked magic. They were bathed in the Sunwells energy even there. As all Thalassian elves are the world over. They became wretched because they found a source of power so potent that they became overwhelmed by it.
Thalassian Elves are still Elves. They identify deeply with wide open nature and tranquility. When they kill, whether to eat or to maintain, they honor that practice and they seek to maintain a balance.
Elementals like the wyrms, on the other hand, differ greatly from animals. The moral grounds here are closer to saying that it’s one thing to eat to live, but a very different thing to torture elementals themselves. The wyrms are part of a cycle, and the Elves honor that cycle. It’s closer to asking someone who views cows as sacred why they’ll eat deer to live but won’t eat a cow.
Yet that’s not what happened to those who abstained with proper meditation and care. They died not because they lacked enough mana to subsist but because they tapped things they shouldn’t have.
Ultimately you’re trying to judge them for doing what they thought was right. They didn’t take anyone with them that didn’t agree. The only people complicit in their deaths were themselves and the Blood Elves who chose to exile them. Without aid.
Except they didn’t. The elves at Quel’lithien did fine until they fell prey to something every species of elf has to date: something powerful enough to corrupt them.
They were ostensibly doing fine with their baubles. They weren’t in the Kirin Tor, either. They were just subsisting on baubles. It was working.
Those in the Kirin Tor, obviously, had mana enough that they were far less in danger. At the same time… they had a stable supply of energy, so why would they have turned vampiric and barbaric when they didn’t have to? Because their brethren were too egotistical to ask for help? No.
The two groups were opposed. Neither was willing to follow other. One ideologically opposed the amoral act of siphoning, one historically opposed to asking for help. They both suffered in the end, but the Blood Elves suffered far more. The High Elves maintained their outlook, health, and way of life for the most part. The Blood Elves became tools of the Horde and suffered many losses.
You really need to drop this “lick the human boots” shtick.
We can say the same about the Blood Elves. Went crawling to the forsaken, to the horde, to the Orcs.