We're not making enough noise about layering

I am willing to use the layering system for a few weeks as Blizzard has stated its duration, and think it needs some tweaks.

However, just hypothetically speaking, If some don’t want layering, and they had the option, they could play through the overpopulated conditions on a realm with no layering but with the SAME capacity. Yep I mean 9k or whatever.

The cohesive world as it was in Vanilla. I know the launch is different in terms of numbers. I would be willing in fact to take the brunt of server 15 without layers so even worse. I bet others might too if it meant that the world was whole.

Not be for the feint of heart but could be done. In fact it would be glorious to me. That is where I would play.

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No. Simply no. But I’ll explain why. Launch ripples for many weeks. Go up to my novel of a post a few minutes ago(Sorry, I suck at keeping posts short) and look at what the no layering launch shows. And that’s not considering some of the more worst-case senarios. Launch will affect the early race to the top, as well as the initial numbers of players. If you have massive numbers unable to play at all, they’ll not bother to come back. Or come back at inopportune times, suffer terrible gameplay(Due to being so far behind) and once more leave.

The problems layering gives are lesser than what a poor launch does. People exploiting layer hopping? Pennies compared to someone who’s got days ahead in playtime and doesn’t have to compete with ANYONE for the top tier market items. Just as one example.

Player retention is also important. And having as many people playing early as possible at the beginning is important. Many of them will leave, sure. But having a fraction of what would remain is much more detrimental.

Edit:

That’s… not hard. Someone who’s never played could do the same after watching a few videos posted about “MAKE EASY GOLD WITH THIS FARMING STRAT” on youtube. Gold =/= skill and/or experience.

This nullifies everything you have said.

K. I’ll let you think you know what’s going on. Back to the people attempting discussion~

You understand that you dont have the requisite knowledge to have the opinions on the matter. I hope you can identify these sorts of things before they make you look more foolish in the future.

Bricklethumb!! Do you not remember my reply to you just very recently about this?

and no one giving alternatives.

What about the “working as a family”!? :cry: Don’t do me like this pls!
I actually got inspired by your attitude. Not kidding!

Also, i remember the things you said about generalizations. And i can see everywhere how much they get you and how you don’t like those. So pls, don’t generalize on me, i’m trying to not generalize for you too! It’s hard but i’m doing what i can :+1:


I’ll list a couple more to show alternatives are being posted and issues acknowledged, but i quite frankly cba to find every sinlge one of them because there’s quite a few of them now, so if you really wanna know also search yourself mkay:

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/some-thoughts-on-layering-and-possible-alternatives/56051?u=vershantis-argent-dawn

Etc.

People clearly are trying to offer alternative approaches, some better than others of course.
But let’s not say that people who don’t want layering aren’t trying to help Blizzard find a way to get the game out without layering, while still addressing their concerns, when they are clearly trying!

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You were implying that you knowing how to “make 1k gold an hour” matters in the discussion taking place. Try to understand what you’re even talking about before trying to sound smart LOL

Edit: Typos are hard T_T

I’m saying due to me knowing where spawn nodes in the world are, the drop percentages of mobs and their abiities I know the prefered classes for these farming spots and the required professions to max gold profits for these spots because I’ve taken several classes to 60 and done this many times. Watching a youtube video doesn’t mean you know anything…

furthermore it means I will exploit layering if it is in and so will everyone in the high end.

And ALL of this knowledge is available to someone who doesn’t even play the game. That’s the bit you don’t understand. Node/Rare spawn maps. Drop percentages from database sites. Preferred classes for farming designated areas/mobs/professions. You don’t ever need to log into the game to find information on these things. Nice try though. You almost had me.

Blizzard! We found one already!! :stuck_out_tongue:

On the real though, I appreciate the discussion. So if I’m wrong, feel free to try to correct me again. (Edit: Since this bit is kind off topic to the overall thread, feel free to make a new thread about how your gold making techniques mean you know the game and tag me in it. Better to discuss it there than dilute the Layering discussion going on. Apologies, friends.)

I agree. I mean when they originally said layering/sharding or whatever would just be in the starting zones I didn’t mind at all. It’s only when they advanced it to being for the entire game for all of phase 1 that it become problematic for me and I think many other players.

Kill the company? Server queues? I doubt it. Also it’s much cheaper for them to host servers these days, they should just make more servers and merge any that get too low of a pop.

Do you really think most people will be 60 in a week?

lol…and pservers did stuff to compensate for players, and guess what, some had layering, some had dynamic re-spawns when they launched fresh servers. Layering wont be a problem. But we know it will be removed for phase 2. We also know it will only be for awhile. Honestly think it’s fine, I find it better then dynamic respawning. A lot of streamers have talked about this. And some are pleased, some aren’t, can’t please everyone.

Server queues, and extended maintenance, surprise maintenance. Want to log in? Yeah you wont be doing that if you’re on x server for half the week.

If you really think vanilla launch was just queues then you obviously weren’t around. I wasn’t playing right at launch and when I started it was still a clown fiesta. The servers weren’t operating “smoothly” until 5+ months into the games life. Even then they had issues quite often.

I haven’t seen an mmo launch as bad as og WoW and I wasn’t even there on opening day.

Edit: Blizzard won’t do server merges. They have never done them and won’t ever do them.

Thanks for this video. I don’t hate layering as much now. It clarified things.

Agreed layering is for retail not this.
Layering is bad.

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Same for me. Although i was really suspicious the moment i heard sharding and WoW Classic in the same sentence, i would have taken sharded northshire valleys, valley of trials etc. for the first couple days max. like i heard them saying at Blizzcon.

Personally, i think Barrens or Elwynn Forest etc would be too much sharding already. Even if it’s just the first days.
They went from just the starting area, to proposing sharding past those initial areas. I didn’t even know about that because i thought it was still only the starting areas during that time, as i’ve been busy with other stuff and didn’t follow what was going on.
Naive of me to think this would go down smoothly…


Because now, we get the entire continent sharded. For weeks or months. What the hell? Blizzard, stop please! :no_entry: What have you been drinking?! #nochanges , remember? :disappointed_relieved:

This is just not acceptable. This is not a faithful recreation of the game anymore if you go down this road!
And we just want that game, yes, even the ugly sides of it, from the start to the end! That’s what the community has been asking for all these years!
Don’t put your layer of concern on this game, i know you think right now you need to, but you don’t!!


There are alternatives that can help alleviate typical issues without sacrificing the game, like they are looking to do with layering by having it change the game into some other version of retail, but outdated.
There’s still time to decide, and i hope they will take a very good, sober #nochanges look at the game and see if it’s still the game they wanna give their fans to on the 27th August.

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Maybe not enough noise is made because not enough people care enough to make noise.

You feel that the majority is against it. Well, from the looks of it I feel most don’t care one way or the other. And since you said it yourself that not enough noise is being made,my feeling is most likely closer to the truth.

I don’t agree.

Here’s one example why:

People failed to make enough noise about class pruning at the end of Legion and I think it’s no secret the majority hate how classes are in retail now.

Even Blizzard recently admitted it was a huge mistake.

I vividly remember all of the threads even shutting people down who complained during the BFA beta, “Oh you elitists just want to make the game artificially harder to make the game less accessible to casuals” or even tons of like yours, “Nobody cares about this issue” or “There’s worse issues in the game this isn’t a big deal” etc etc.

There’s plenty of noise about layering, and plenty of discontent, but not enough people are voicing it as strongly as they should. My point in my thread title is that we aren’t making enough noise likely because most people who hate it have little to no hope of anything being changed anyways or something like that and aren’t bothering to voice their opinion. My goal is to get them to not do that and instead share how they really feel so we reduce the chance to have these terrible decisions continually rammed through the game.

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There is the confirmed fact by Blizz though that only a tiny minority of players actually bother to use the forums, or look at them.

Same goes for other social media. People who do engage or learn about extra info from those alternative sources are the most involved bunch, and it’s not that many people compared to how many actually just play the game, and find out about updates by playing only.

I’d consider myself for example to be really involved into all things WoW, but i didn’t feel like spoiling Classic by reading too much about it beforehand, or watching too much etc, because i figured i’ll just wait and let them release the game, and then nolife accordingly.

It happened by chance that i tuned in at the right time one day to a stream to even hear about layering, let alone try figure out where it’s gonna go.
Then i had to decide to post about it on the forums at a time where everyone just gets shut down who tries to talk about it, creating another barrier to entry, cause obviously i don’t feel like getting stepped on willingly just cause i disagree, like most people wouldn’t want to have happen to them either.

Also, you can’t just comment on the forum without having at least a lvl 10 trial character. Basically, these forums aren’t representative of the big playerbase.

Right now, they clearly favor the audience of retail as they are still subscribed, and can therefore access the stress tests, use the forums, and so on, giving their views especially much spotlight.
That doesn’t present the accurate picture of those who’ll actually be looking to play classic longterm, because they aren’t subscribed yet or involved, simply cause the game has not released yet.

If it weren’t for layering i’d be far away from the official forums or any extra spoiler territories. There’s still so many people who don’t even know about any of this, who are gonna play the game when it comes out, and find out about layering from Day 1. And they’ll have some questions.

That’s why it’ really important Blizzard pays attention to those who go out of their way to explain why this doesn’t appeal to them while there’s still time, because those people represent the longterm core audience who want Classic with #nochanges.

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