We need to talk about Ret Paladins

[Actives-dreadmaul]

yeah this would be a positive change for the game

[Vibadin-area-52]

I play Ret when its good. I play Ret when its bad. Every class goes through ebbs and flows. Every. Class.

[Tentacleform-stormrage]

lust and brez should just be extra action buttons if no one in the group can do said things.

[Staytuned-wild-growth]

Ret is pretty busted atm, no doubt about it. Are other specs doing more dps? Sure. Do they bring the same kind of amazing utility, easy rotation and borderline broken defensives as well? Definitely not. And that’s the point to remember.
Either tweak their utility or dps, it doesn’t have to be both. Or how about just bringing other specs up to date and give them a rework

[Actives-dreadmaul]

Yeah agreed. It’s the combination of all those things that others have mentioned with make it just too strong
I don’t like to advocate for nerfs since it will make a lot of people unhappy. But if it’s between just leaving things in their current state and nerfs? something has to be done

[Rackstab-area-52]

Only reason they are popular is because like the op said the low skill floor to playing them. There’s def an arguement that its the easiest spec in the game and thats counting the brain dead bm hunter.

[Coromu-bleeding-hollow]

Do we have to? When there are far more specs struggling and feeling bad? Ret doesn’t need the attention right now.

[Sultani-area-52]

My ret bar is just a big divine storm button.

/s

[Gizanga-grobbulus]

Pally was trash until WOTLK and then was tossed in the trash and forced to heal until Legion and then tossed in the trash can again until right now, and they’re still not as good as mages and rogues in DPS. Please calm down with the conspiracies and gaslighting.

[Lightenhorns-bleeding-hollow]

It won’t because of the aoe silence rogue has. Ret aoe is top 2 with enh, maybe top 3 with DK but they lack anyform of high CC aoe for 12+ keys which is more needed

[Joonhwa-stormrage]

Seems like a chicken and egg thing. It’s one of the most-played classes in the game, but is that because it’s easy or is it because Blizz buffs their damage and mobility at every turn (making it easier)?

[Henceforth-area-52]

@Actives-dreadmaul

Trying to use the least amount of hyperbole possible but it seems like a good 80% of M+ key groups have a Ret Paladin in them. And why wouldn’t they? They are sturdy, deal insane damage and have some of the best utility in the game. It’s a pity that most of them are terrible but that could be attributed to the laughably low skill floor to play the spec.

• Blizzard really really REALLY want rets to use sacrifice they put it in such spot that you have to go out of your way to not pick it
• rets still not using it
• they even add damage bonus for using it
• rets still not using it
• blizzard goes out of their way and adds automatic sacrifice

Name a spec in the game right now that has more or equal hand holding. They even have automatic freedom now, automatic self heal, automatic wings, near 100% uptime damage windows where they are just in “go” mode, most of their abilities being ranged so they can straight up ignore punishing melee mechanics… where does it end?

Wouldn’t be so bad if other classes/specs in the game had this kind of favoritism but someone at Blizzard clearly likes the spec. So what gives?

Rets are really good right now.
They can even “solo” heal dungeons +12.

[Joonhwa-stormrage]

@Anduin-llane

Ret paladins should be able to wield a wand. At this point

Lol, they should only be able to wield a wand at this point.

[Lightenhorns-bleeding-hollow]

They are, but fall off HARD in 12-13+ cause of lack of aoe CC like sham/rogue/war have

[Sultani-area-52]

Ret is easy to play. Thats true.

Nothing in this game is hard. But the learning curve for something like ret compared to say, shadow priest is going to make ret way more appealing than most specs.

[Iamdelight-illidan]

Embrace de light man, let it embrace you

[Azukí-dalaran]

It’s more like the class plays itself so inviting a ret paladin is alot less risky than other melee dps in terms of error, so when it’s good, it’s really good for pugs

[Lidiaa-area-52]

Which I personally have zero issue with in WoW. The level in play does vary wildly though. I’m just starting mythic + this season but Rets seem to be the biggest wildcards that I invite so far.

[Fibblepop-stormrage]

@Rackstab-area-52

Only reason they are popular is because like the op said the low skill floor to playing them. There’s def an arguement that its the easiest spec in the game and thats counting the brain dead bm hunter.

I know why Retribution is popular, and having a difference of opinions or asking a question doesn’t equate to someone being a “Contrarian” as was stated by some other poster above.

They’re popular because the developers decided to go through and simplify their rotation, to trim down the button bloat and streamline their gameplay. Which in turn boosted their popularity even higher.

But the minority of the player base that even use these forums can’t tolerate a spec who’s been streamlined and simplified, producing great numbers. So, then you end up with “beating around the bush” post like this one.

Whereby the OP doesn’t come right out and ask for that specific class to be nerfed, but sure does throw around a lot of innuendo and buzzwords to indicate their feelings on the matter is that they shouldn’t be as strong as they are.

And just to be clear, I am in favor of All classes being streamlined and made to be more simplified in play but harder to master at the top end. Basically, you can bust out some great numbers, but you ain’t reaching the upper pinnacle unless you master that rotation like the top end players.

[Rackstab-area-52]

I agree with everything you typed actually. Food for thought too in terms of “mechanical skill” for rotations.

Fury warrior is a good example of a class that is easy to learn rotationally but the skill differential in it is the insane apm to get 100% efficiency out of it i feel like more of that wouldnt be an awful decision.