You can and you have to in a game such as this one. Sorry. You aren’t the only one paying for this game. Again, you do not get to tell entire playable communities to pound sand for your fantasies. If you want that, fanfiction is there for you.
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It’s pretty rich for all this to be coming from you by the way, who seems to have typed up a minimum of 10,000 words per day on how your abstract feelings about the narrative weight of the Night Elves are so grossly violated by their present lore when what you’re complaining about exists entirely in the abstract.
If gameplay is all that matters, you have nothing to complain about. You can quest through Darkshore when leveling just fine, you can go back to Teldrassil by talking to Zidormi. In the cold calculus of gameplay, the Night Elves have lost literally nothing.
And yet you’re here constantly complaining about their state and demanding Blizzard do something about it and then have the gall to tell me that my complaints are invalid because the cold calculus of gameplay is the only thing that matters?
You are a hypocrite.
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My point was specific to your statement of
which implies that granting the Forsaken the plaguelands while removing Hillsbrad and Southern Silverpine (as Droite’s idea had suggested) was going to actively screw over a group within the lore and fanbase. I didn’t see much of a group that could be screwed over and focused on that.
As far as geo-politics goes, power does generally define borders (even treaties are technically an exercise of power by signatories).
Eww.
But being serious, considering the rest of the Horde I’d think a realistic concept would probably be a round two of the Kor’kron observer situation, Calia wouldn’t technically have the support to be a ‘supervisor’ if the Forsaken actual wanted to work against her; and her character doesn’t really seem the type to demand they follow her will.
As it is, the Horde and Alliance do not exit BfA with the same power disparity they exited MoP with so the Alliance isn’t in quite the situation to ‘dictate terms’ as it were.
As described previously, there’s more that goes into my analysis than whether you can play in an area or not. But that’s an impressive dodge. Well done - great move trying to focus the conversation on me by the way instead of your insanity.
Humans are in a spectacular place. They head up high profile victories, their characters are seen as powerful and are popular - they feature heavily in the marketing as well. Their position is secure, and their identity, while generic, is not the target of constant attacks. They do not need to demolish an entire playable race to redress anything.
It does not deserve, nor do its fans deserve the right to, the overwhelmingly dominant position that you’re demanding, and once again - you do not get to tell an entire playable race to pound sand for your fantasies.
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Human fans are also fans of the Argent Crusade, FYI, who are the ones who control most of the Plaguelands now and ejecting them to make room for the Forsaken undercuts the entire narrative drive of the Argents, namely as an anti-undead force seeking to reclaim the Plaguelands for the living in the name of the Light.
And yeah, but geopolitically it’s the Alliance that dominates Lordaeron now.
The Horde has proven to be historically either unable or unwilling to police the Forsaken. The Alliance would be fools to trust them to do it themselves for realsies this time.
In Lordaeron they do. The Alliance controls most of Silverpine, Southern Hillsbrad, all of Arathi, and probably all of Gilneas. The Forsaken lost Tirisfal and Undercity and only presumably retain Andorhal and Tarren Mill, making them completely encircled by the Alliance and the Argents.
The Alliance is absolutely in a position to dictate terms. They won’t, but they can.
Are you for real? If this were true we wouldn’t be having this conversation, where a bunch of people including yourself clutch pearls over the notion that humanity can actually rebuild its historical homeland after over a decade on the brink of literal extinction. You are proposing that instead, the pre-BfA status quo of most of humanity being refugees or farmable mobs is the acceptable scenario.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and need to stick to Kalimdor because your understanding of what motivates human (or Forsaken fans for that matter) is laughably sophomoric and it’s clear that the only reason you bother to weigh in on these conversations at all is because you still subscribe to the childish belief that boosting the Forsaken will somehow boost Night Elves.
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“But look at all the territory humans control! How can you not be satisfied?”
gestures at 4 zones worth of pop culture references and fart jokes
“Humans are so well represented already!”
camera pans over to endlessly respawning human mob camps repeatedly being killed by Horde lowbies
The “childish belief” I harbor is that playable communities are not chew toys for other playable communities. This is not “Fojar’s special playground where only his wants and desires matter”.
And sure, having NPCs of your race isn’t comfortable. It’s why I don’t like Ghostlands questing - but guess what, you don’t get immunity from that either.
Idk why yall still arguing with Ainhin at this point.
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“Humanity’s identity isn’t under attack! That’s ludicrous!”
a pile of Human NPC’s are raised into card carrying Horde members
“The Forsaken are the true people of the human kingdoms btw”
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Aren’t these only in place to try to create the feeling of the early horde zones being invaded by the alliance? I remember that being the reason why you fight back against some of them in Dutotar, apparently Ironforge dwarves feature in Mulgore, they also popped up in the southern Barrens, etc. Is what you’re objecting to that the alliance is originally shown as being intrusive to horde lowbies?
Edit: Hell, even the night elves did it a little bit in the barrens too. If you were really unlucky, a pack of rare-spawn outriders could bowl you over if you stuck to the roads, which is normally supposed to be your safe path.
And what, per-se did she gain the first time she abandoned them? If your answer was, she was “rid and done with them” … and that “they had served their purpose” … you’d be right on the damned money. Frankly, when the topic of Sylvanas came up after EoN I always kind of wondered what would happen should her Bulwark Against the Infinite ever become as worthless to her as her arrows did after the fall of Arthas? Would she abandon that bulwark just like she did her quiver? And the answer was unsurprisingly HELL YES! Her relationship with them has always been defined by how much she needed them.
Its not that she gained anything by abandoning them, its that they weren’t worth the effort to continue investing in. They were tools that had lost their purpose, and this was especially apparent in Stormheim. When her Bulwark utterly failed to do the one thing it was supposed to do; and shield her from her enemies. When they allowed Genn Greymane of all people to just come in and smash Sylvie’s new Lanturn. If any event proved to her that they were not worth trusting with her “eternity” … it would be that event.
That you think that a single mob camp of Night Elves in the Ghostlands is equivalent to the Forsaken’s entire leveling experience being based solely on killing humans whose only crime is existing on land the Forsaken want just shows how laughably out of touch you are.
I would not personally define the human racial identity as collecting as many human kingdoms as possible like pokemon cards. In fact, it’s…kind of the opposite, that’s the point of Warcraft 3.
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This mostly begs the question of how much of the Argent Crusade is even left, after Legion cost them most of their leadership and troop count while also subsuming most of the rest into the resurgent Silver Hand for however long that lasted.
It’s not like you would even have to do much to the Argent Crusade to give the lands to the Forsaken.
Add Forsaken presences on the roads and maybe at Corin’s, A Forsaken Stratholme… could keep the farms and Argent Crusade towns strictly with the Crusade, even give them Tyr’s Hand fully.
No. Most of those humans are there because they were always there. The Alliance shows up to back them up but get dunked on by Forsaken lowbies.
In the case of Hillsbrad you aren’t even really fighting the Alliance, you’re just torturing the local civilians and stopping the Alliance from liberating the death camps you built for them.
Which is kind of weird considering that attack was done by the Dark Rangers not a large force of Forsaken, she’d essentially be blaming them for her own secrecy blowing up in her face.
Solely? I recall that questing also going after Worgen, the Scourge, Gnolls, the Scarlet Crusade (who are not part of the Alliance), Murlocs, gnomes, Night Elves, spiders, plaguebats, and various other things.
The point of Warcraft 3 was that humanity was driven to near extinction by the Third War, and their arc in WoW is about clawing their way back from that. One of the ways that manifests is by reclaiming the kingdoms that were destroyed. It’s not solely about territory, a lot of it is about symbolism and it’s one of the reason that the Alliance spent so much to make Stormwind as fancy as possible after the Second War; it was meant to be a symbol of human resiliance.
Screw human fans. Lordaeron and Alterac are just about the only two human Kingdoms that can be quantified as “Dead Kingdoms”. They have no remaining living heirs to continue their lines, and the majority of their infrastructure and nobility/leadership are gone. On top of the majority of their surviving populations resettled. I’d rather those territories support their current inhabitants, rather than be used for some Manifest Destiny-esk nonsense with Human resettlement. The Forest Trolls, Frostwolves, BEs, and Undead more than populate those regions.
Human Fans will just have to settle with Stromgarde, Gilneas, Kul Tiras, Dalaran, and Stormwind being the 5 Human Kingdoms. Rather than 7.
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Okay, screw Forsaken fans. Boy this sure is a constructive conversation we’re having.