I’m the forum’s insufferable mother hen, thank you very much. Don’t bother trying to take over my (poorly performed) position.
But in all seriousness, what question are we discussing right now? I know Ghorak is continually working on his suggested SV revamp (which sometimes includes the two other specs as a frame of reference), and that we’d occasionally get a new poster popping up to either support RSV or MSV.
But what are we discussing right now? The merits of RSV? What lessons we could learn from Vanilla/Classic?
What?
(As an aside, I’ve noticed that ever since Classic’s launch, posters here have all but stopped claiming that SV was originally a melee spec in Vanilla. Interesting, isn’t it?)
Don’t you worry. You can still find them on MMO-C.
There also happens to be a post or two on there where some are suggesting that Classic SV should be turned into a melee spec, going forward.
Returning to the topic, I think getting ranged survival would be nice (as long as those asking for it keep it cute). I know I wouldn’t want to see KC removed from current survival since I love its animation and mechanic.
Whatever happen to “all weapons are hunter weapons”?
The possability of bring back talent trees as a way to recreate RSV and maybe create mixed specs, like melee BM.
Which BM already has. The stated that they needed to remake SV was that is had no distinction from MM; however, the did the reverse in BfA and gave it KC and BW thinning the line.
The first version of MSV was a little bloated but stood out from the other Hunter specs that is what I want to see again.
I’m aware. That’s not my problem though. I like KC on both but love the animation of it on Survival compared to BM.
It seems like they removed BW from survival anyways though. I couldt find it when I was in mine and don’t see it listed on wowhead under da spec. I don’t think every single skill needs to be different in all of the specs either. Even though DFA is a pvp rogue talent I would love to see it become a baseline skill for all specs for instance.
You and your pet attack as one, increasing all damage you both deal by 20% for 20 sec.
Bestial WrathTalent
12% of base mana 100 yd range
Instant 2 min cooldown
Requires Hunter (Beast Mastery)
Send your pet into a rage causing 50% additional damage for 18 sec. While enraged, the beast does not feel pity or remorse or fear and it cannot be stopped unless killed.
It’s even more apparent with the current version of BW (you posted the classic version).
Also, the Survival mastery Spirit Bond is based on something that used to be a BM talent.
To be fair: BM currently has a talent named after something that used to be a ranged Survival talent (Thrill of the Hunt) but it’s entirely different in its effect.
Senior Producer Travis M. Day: "It was another one that was missing its niche. It’s kind of like Marksman except more traps? Or different arrows? So it was kind of missing that “what is the core fantasy?”
Having it move into the melee space and actually return to its roots that was the vanilla Survival experience. You got your Raptor Strike and all that and having those come back and play a role, moving into melee, giving mobility like the Harpoon to draw you in – it’s like it finally gave them a unique identity. If this is the beast companion guy that you’ve always wanted to play then you’re going to have that role."
Blizzard wanted diffrences with the specs, but turn this around by having SV more in common with BM.
I agree that them making SV into a melee spec was an easy way to add a higher level of diversity towards the other Hunter specs.
As for the answer Travis gave us in that interview…I’m sorry but anyone who says that doesn’t know much about it’s intended theme/fantasy.
What was it’s niche(as a Hunter spec)? And even more so, what could it become?
A focus on DoTs over instant damage and burst potential.
A theme surrounding Explosives, Animal Venom, Poisons. (Enhancing ammo)
An increased focus on strengthening traps. Or give you more.
As well as optional ways to rely more on pets. Compared to that of MM, which has nothing. Why? Because it is part of the general Class Fantasy of Hunters.
You(anyone) tell me.
Is this what MM was back then? Is this what MM is today?
…or is this perhaps something unique that ranged SV could bring to the class?
The thing about this that is most upsetting, if you ask me, is that he gave this statement at the time that he did. If you read between the lines of what he said it’s basically this:
We haven’t done a good enough job at giving Survival the clear definition it needs. And going forward, we have some ideas of how to achieve that.
/points at new Survival(which is now a melee spec)
So basically, at a time where they are doubling down on the focus on spec identities and fantasies. Instead of doing just that to what was Survival at the time, they scrap it for a completely different approach?
How is this concidered ‘‘fixing the problem at hand(in reference to the current spec design)’’?
I was completely against this whole change to a melee spec on my Hunter (main) pleading against it, but it is a lot fun to play. That being said, I play Marks because I want to be ranged.
Marks sucks personally, as far as a ‘fun’ spec. Oh sure it can be fun to one-shot something when everything lines up but that is a short lived thrill as you are swarmed by a Mob.
I’ve been in beast spec for like an hour? Hate it personally. Thought that should have been the melee spec but whatever, my dollars only count for a minimal amount of influence.
My survival play style is probably want made Blizzard eliminate ranged Survival Hunter and I am sure other people did it too. It really became evident on Timeless Isle kiting large mobs over alliance players that would temporarily pull aggro and die. So much fun to watch! A Blink Fox with a Tail whip to slow on a mob and blink to the next. Yup, fun managing a dozen Mogul and guiding to some unsuspecting Human Pally. sighs.
Survival was the spec of choice, now it is a diversion to switch things up. I wish they would give it back to the way it was but it is like arguing with a Child that does no wrong.
My idea would be to give this entire spec to Demon Hunters, and have a 3rd spec a pet spec for DH’s. They would not summon a pet, they would corrupt one to be their companion and have the ability to permanently sacrifice it as a full on heal.
Again, my dollars to ideas and wants = nothing. I’m sure that they will give up something a kid comes up with because it would be ‘edgy’.
I agree that there were a lot of things you could do with old ranged SV. It was a lot of fun indeed.
I understand why you would suggest for a spec to be added to DHs as they only have two atm. Though I can’t say that I’m overly thrilled of having the old SV moved and re-shaped to fit another class instead.
Also, not entirely sure that I understood what you’re after
On another note, I’m thinking of re-designing one of the talents tied to my suggestions for ranged SV as a 4th spec option for the Hunter class.
T.N.T. - If Explosive Shot is used on an enemy already affected by a previous charge, the charge’s remaining duration is refreshed as well as increased by an additional 3 seconds. An active charge can only have a max duration of 9 seconds.
Exotic Munitions-procs now also increase the remaining duration of any active Explosive Shot charge you have on the current target by 3 seconds.
Potential new design:
T.N.T. - If Explosive Shot is used on an enemy already affected by a previous charge, the charge’s remaining duration is refreshed as well as increased by an additional 3 seconds. An active charge can only have a max duration of 9 seconds.
Exotic Munitions-procs now also increases the base duration of the next Explosive Shot fired by 3 seconds.
What would the difference be to the current design?
Instead of having Exotic Munitions-procs affecting charges that are already active on a target. It would instead allow for the next Explosive Shot you fire to have it’s base duration increased from the default 4 seconds. Explosive Shot still cannot have a max duration longer than 9 seconds.
Just that now, you would be in more control of when you gain that extra duration bonus. As you’re the one deciding when and at what target you fire your Explosive Shot.
I get what you’re saying but there’s plenty of differences between those two skills. Even if they were the exact same skill that goes back to my point of me not thinking every spec needs to only have exclusive skills.
“Plenty of differences” what a joke. They literally have the same basic function. They are both offensive cooldowns that buff the damage output of the Hunter and the pet by a flat percentage. They are even similar in their values for duration, cooldown, and damage percentage buff.
The only differing factor is how they interact with other abilities. Bestial Wrath has a cooldown reduction tied to Barbed Shot, Coordinated Assault increases the chance Kill Command (the other ability it stole from Beast Mastery) will reset. I can respect that. That’s how Multi-Shot used to function for the three ranged specs; same base ability with different additional effects. But this is meant to be an iconic, defining element of the spec: the offensive CD. From WoD onwards they decided their explicit goal was to make each of the Hunter specs have its own CD. Look at Marksmanship’s CD: it’s totally different and it’s not just a flat damage percentage increase. Combined with Kill Command and Spirit Bond this just fits in the over-all theme of having no unique ideas therefore resorting to just lifting stuff from BM and putting it in SV.
It’s especially egregious when ostensibly the whole point of making SV melee in the first place, as alluded to by that clueless hack of a developer Travis Day, was to make the spec more different to the other Hunter specs. In every SV argument I’ve been in for the past 3 years I’ve been told I have to defend how SV had similar or sometimes the same abilities as other Hunter specs when it was ranged yet here melee SV is stealing the most iconic parts of BM and claiming them as its own. It just demonstrates the hypocrisy and fakery of the people who developed melee SV and the people who supported it. The goal was never to make it more different to other Hunter specs and improve its identity because they’ve utterly failed at both those objectives. The goal was to make a melee Hunter spec at all costs. Everything else is just an excuse invented after the fact to try and fail to justify it.
They still, are not, the same skill though. Even if they were I’ve already made a statement about that.
If y’all were nicer about going about getting back range survival then I could see myself coming along to agree with switching survivals kits and playstyle with Bm. The problem is you give trolls a inch and they take a mile. Next thing me and the superior survival hunters know we lose out on our spec cause people wanna throw everything around. The main issue with swapping the specs is people have been crying about there being a melee spec on hunters in the first place. Swapping the specs wouldn’t change that.
