I would literally murder someone to get back MoP hunters, especially survival.
I dont think hunters have been in a worse state then the absolute garbage design we have in BfA at the moment. 
7 Likes
Obviously I would be Joe, or the hooker⊠duh.
Do you have anything in particular regarding MoP SV that you especially want a returned version to have?
I know you said #RevertToMoP, as in the whole spec. Iâm mostly just interested in specific reasons as to why^^
Nah bro youâre all Frito 
Well, I ainât Bheleu, but the reason I liked MoP the best for class design is the so-called âbutton bloat.â
I liked having a large rotation. I liked having a large selection of options to use during a long fight. And I loved having a huge toolkit.
MoP was the only expansion in which I genuinely enjoyed all classes.
8 Likes
If Iâm Frito, youâre most definitely the Secretary of State, âbrought to you by Carlâs Jr.â
But nah, we all know the MSV cats are the smartest people in the room here. Naham can be Joe, Iâll be the hooker.
That came out wrongâŠ
The problem with mm is the importance to stand still in order to do damage and a lack of cc to make up for the amount of gap closers other classes have, speaking of pvp specifically is horrible for the MM hunter because it lacks in kiting compared to its melee counterpart MsV.
The devs see this problem and the attempt was made to fix the need to stand still by reducing the time to cast aimed shot by having the essence vision of perfection (vop). The only problem is that every other class has vop as well.
The only way to fix mm hunters and meld them with Rsv moving forward would be by giving them the proper amount of cc baseline to counter act the amount of gap closers other classes have and two options of dealing damage to choose from in our talent tree.
1.) Strong damage but the need to stand still with the option to reduce the time on aimed shot.
Or
2.) Being able to have sustainable damage with small windows of burst provided by a variety of other shots while being completely mobile. For example Black Arrow, serpent sting, barbed shot, and The d.o.t version of explosive shot.
It seems as if they attempted this but failed to bring back rsv into mm as promised by tying down all Marksman hunters to aimed shot. Where as MsV hunters have the ability to opt out on raptor strike for the overpowered version known as mongoose bite.
Tldr; give mm hunters the proper amount of baseline cc to counter act all of the gap closers and the ability to choose between either being a mobile hunter or a caster. 
1 Like
I liked Frito, he was actually funny.
No worries! 
I can agree on that.
However, there can certainly be a difference between what I would consider a good type of âlarge selectionâ and a bad one.
For example, BM in WoW today, doesnât have a whole lot of abilities baseline, but it has the option to add in up to 5 extra abilities for you to pick between.
The thing about them all though is that they are basic use-on-CD abilities with no connection to the actual core of the spec.
Sure, they are BM abilities even in theme butâŠthey arenât connected to you much at all.
This to me, is an example of a large toolkit that is not as well designed.
No, not everything has to be connected but stand-alone, use-on-CD abilities with varying longer CDs arenât that fun. Nor are they very convenient to manage in many situations.
This is also one of the reasons for why I decided to have 2 extra baseline abilities compared any other current hunter spec, in my suggestion for RSV. Because they actually fit the theme. And letâs us have a bit more to choose from depending on the situation. Without much of the added inconvenience.
This is why shoving in some of RSV abilities just does not flow with MM method of play.
A marksman is an archer whose skill with all ranged weapons is unmatched. They mark a single quarry at a time, preferring to focus down a singular target over weaker quarry. They refuse to flee even in the face of overwhelming odds, standing thier ground.
Range Survival was based on having intimate familiarity with the wilds, rangers who have leaned the ability to cast spells that harness natureâs power. Their spells, like their combat abilities, focus on speed, stealth, and the hunt.
These two fantasies just do not meld well. You have one focused on slowly taking out one target at a time; on the other hand, you have a quick paced fighter.
It would be great to see old RSV style brought back, and added to MSV. Let MSV be fully mobile give them Acrobatic Strikes and remove the CD on Harpoon, so they can move freely in and out of combat. Have less priority on the pet and focus is build up through DoTs. Talents that can add more range if a player wants that play-style, or strengthen melee combat.
This, would be amazing.
A MSV with the playstyle, fantasy and utility of a MoP RSV would be very, very interesting 
I just love Survival right now, my favorite melee spec. I spec into getting to use harpoon more often and as focus generator, and I love the mobility, I feel like my mobility is amazing, and I have more range than any other melee I can think of. As a disclaimer, I started my hunter this xpac, and have played survival almost exclusively, so I donât know how hunters used to be, but when compared with my pally/warrior/rogue/dk, this is hands down my favorite melee spec.
3 Likes
I want to be open and simply disagree for the reason being as it stands MsV has already gotten more than enough attention. Allow it to stay the way it is and focus on the other 2 Specs.
The only way to properly return RsV in any way is through Marksman hunter through the way Iâve described it. By giving two choices to the mm hunters through damage on how to take down a foe.
Being a fully mobile ranger with a variety of shots or an archer who focuses down his sights to line up powerful shots.
Iâm more focused on functionality than fantasy.
TLDR; Donât tie down Marksmanship hunters main damage to aimed shot by giving them The ability to choose wether they want aimed shot as their key ability or another shot like Black Arrow. Similar to the choice between mongoose bite or raptor strike.
4 Likes
Both Havoc Demon Hunters and Wind Walker Monks exceptional mobility and can switch targets quickly, but most of their attacks requires them to be in close range. That is what MSV should focus on, being able to attack with out the penalties of having to be in melee.
Be able to switch from one target to the next without having to wait on CD, be able to spread DoTs around, and have best crowd control. MSV lacks the ability to kite unlike most other range specs. As a melee, you have to close in with the enemy to do damage, so Survival always has to be able to maintain contact with their target. Outside of a CD they are still forced to be right in up in the face of danger, but they should not have to be.
Think extending its reach and having more range options, or CC abilities would give MSV more of an edge over some of the other melee specs. Bring it back to a more versatile spec, a hit and run fighter, letting your poisons and bleeds slowly dwindle your enemies health down then using your melee attacks to finish the job.
Even with the rework of MM Marksmanship is the least mobile Hunter spec, as it is the only spec that has to deal with long cast times during, which you cannot move to use it most powerful ability. This contradicts what RSV was about, being a fully mobile run and gun fighter. Likewise, MM lacks the elemental/ magic attacks that RSV was know for. By Blizzard trying to mash the two together is is clear they had many distinctions from each other.
Adding more talents may be an option, but the play-styles could also be so separate from each other they may as well as make two distinct specs.
Thereâs no need to waste a large amount of time to make a completely different Spec and balance it when blizzard can take away barrage, and piercing shot while replacing them with Barbed shot and Black arrow which will replace aimed shot if chosen.
Aimed Shot is MM primary damage ability and has been its signature shot. Blizzard would not have talent an ability to replace it as it would alter the mechanics of MM too much. Steady Shot would also break the feeling of mobile, just looks so stiff.
6 Likes
Awesome that you like it!
I only hope that we can get the old ranged SV spec back as well, as an addition(4th spec) alongside the existing specs that we currently have.
Many of us loved that spec as much as you do the new MSV! 
The problem is that, as have been pointed out, simply adding in a few signature RSV abilities as talents that replace a few core MM abilities, would not give us RSV back.
We would still be missing a lot of other talent choices that builds on that spec even more. Along with several passive effects that do the same.
You simply cannot add all of these things to MM as it would flat out be too much contained within one spec.
It would actually be more work having to redesign MM in order to fit RSV into it, than there would be adding it to the class as a 4th spec option.
At lesast if the purpose is to give us a proper playable version of RSV.
I can see why you would want MSV to be fully ranged as well, though like I said, that change would not give us the actual old RSV playstyle back that weâre asking for.
I wouldnât want to play MSV from afar any more than I want to play it now as a melee spec.
Barbed Shot has nothing to do with the old RSV.
1 Like
Thereâs 2 things that made ranged survival play style.
1.) better and more cc/utility than the other 2 specs
2.) sustainable ranged damage with small windows of burst while being completely mobile.
Melee survival currently has this play style albeit in melee form, and itâs here to stay. Iâm all for the return of range survival completely, but realistically itâs not going to happen.
Anyone advocating for a complete 4th spec away from what we currently have has a better chance of winning the lottery. Let it go.
What Iâm proposing for blizzard to do is to add the 2 as an option for Mm going forward to add more flavor to this spec besides aimed shot and rapid fire and standing still.
Which means having barbed shot as a talent that replaces rapid fire to build focus and Black Arrow to replace aimed shot to and deal the same amount of damage.
This can actually work and will take less time and resources to deal with than to make a new 4th spec and balance it. Mm and Bm needs attention right now Iâd rather have these two specs focused on.
2 Likes
Sure, it would take less time to implement.
But what youâre describing isnât even close to what the old RSV played like.
What are you basing this on?
Sort of, yes.
But you canât simply push aside the exact mechanics and the theme that made Survival what it was. You canât disregard the fantasy behind it.
If you do, then what the H*** are we even doing asking for it to come back?
The whole purpose with these requests is to get the actual RSV playstyle back as it was in itâs core.
Not some weird amalgamation based on the core of Marksmanship.
1 Like
nah i disagree. they need to make a melee talent for BM because thatâs what msv is, melee reskinned beast mastery. niche gameplay like this doesnât need a whole spec.
5 Likes