We need range Survival Hunters back

Classes Hunter
1074

People are so quick to yell for the removal of pets. And fair enough, if you simply do not like to have a pet with you then I can understand.

But anyone who wants a spec to not have any pet interaction, optional or even as with BM where it’s mandatory, I will just say this.
Pet’s are a part of the hunter class.

In the past it was more about:
I’m a hunter, I have a pet by my side.

Then it became:
I’m a hunter. I usually have a pet by my side. Unless I pick Lone Wolf.

Now, it’s suddenly become:
I’m a ranger. I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH A PET.

And the thing is…removing pets or adding the Lone Wolf option to pretty much all specs, is not actually a fix for the problems you can currently see with the pet AI. It’s the equivalent of sweeping the problem under a rug while hoping that few enough care about pets anymore for it to matter anyway.

Having said that. I would actually agree that BM should be the only hunter spec that has a baseline reliance on using a pet. Other specs should have pet reliance being optional as there are those who just don’t like pets.

MM can be the only spec that does not promote the use of pets in any way whatsoever(part from having the option to call one out). But other specs should for example have some talents that you can pick to focus just a bit more on your pet.

As some have seen in my posts before, pet reliance through optional talents, is one way to cater to both sides.

1075

He was the one who found the link that got us the Let’s Talk threads.

1076

First read :slight_smile:

If you read … being able … means you can run it with … of without … i not say removal i talk about Player Choice here.

First off i am not asking to remove Pets, i talk about Player Choice. I’m not quick to yell for removal of pets.
In fact I Love Beastmaster … since Vanilla when they added Bestial Wrath.

But while it makes sense to have Beastmaster be reliant to it’s pet, i don’t think a Marksman or Survival Ranger should be Reliant to the Pet.
The Pet should be for those Specializations … a addition … not something to rely on. Sadly right now for Marksman it is not so much a addition as Blizzard enforces Lone Wolf.

You seem to agree with me here … i am in the same boat, to say.

So what i propose is, that the Pet should do at least as much damage as Lone Wolf adds … to give the Player the Choice to run with … or without his trusty companion.

Survival should not have a core ability rely on the Pet, but again … a Lone Wolf option should be balanced so if a Hunter wishes to bring a Pet he not get penalized for doing so. There should be benefits for bringing one … and not bringing one.

1077

Wasn’t talking about you specifically. Sorry, should’ve pointed that out.

Was just talking in general about the mindset that so many have today.

So many go directly for the “petless” approach when it comes to most hunter specs. And many claim that it’s the best solution so we don’t have to deal with the pet AI etc.

This is what I’m pointing at. Technically yes, it would give us a way to not have to deal with it. But for those that actually want to play with pets, it wouldn’t be a solution at all…

Agreed. As long as they can actually get it somewhat balanced. To make it worth actually playing with a pet. And with “worth” I don’t mean that it should be a DPS increase…
I just mean that we shouldn’t feel like we’re losing out just because of bringing a pet.

I honestly have nothing against MM being the spec that does not promote the use of pets in any way. Either baseline or through talents.

Having 1 out of 3(or preferably 4 specs if we can get ranged SV back) that does not focus on pets at all, is okay.

I agree, only BM should have baseline functions that relies on using a pet.

Any other spec(s) should be capable of adding things to the pet, though those should be entirely optional.

If you check my suggestions here(or if you check the MMO-Champion topic) you will in the comments section see several replies where they complain that a few talent options involve your pet in some way:

MMOC:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2490341-Pre-Legion-Survival-Spec-Fantasy

They say this despite the fact that talents are entirely optional. It’s a way to make it possible for players who do want the benefit of pets(for example in the open world, while leveling or questing). While at the same time, anyone who don’t want it, can pick other talents.

Remove everything that involves pets, optional or otherwise, from all specs but BM and you will have an even harder time finding connections between the specs and the class as a whole.
Not to mention that adding in some optional ways to make use of pets, would make your talent-pool more diverse. Without having to add in niche abilities such as Glaive Toss or similar(an ability with no connection to the core playstyle of each spec whatsoever, nor to the general class design of Hunters in WoW).

1078

I was digging down into War Craft 3 to see part of the roots World of Warcraft has.

In WC3 you have Dwarven Rifleman, High Elf Archer, Blood Elf Archer, Troll Headhunter(if you count throwing Spears) and the ight Elf Archers.
No Pet whatsoever …

However with the Expansion to WC3 came Rexxar, and he was Beast-master and also a Melee … he dual wields two axes though.
Which brings up the question why they turned the Survival into the melee Specializations … and why the Spear when there are Agi 1hs.

But yeah, i love pets. But in certain … aspects of the game(like PvP) i would prefer if i could go Lone Wolf(especially in BGs or Raids) … but then again when Leveling, Questing, Farming, Arena … Dungeons a pet is nice(even if all it does is Lust/Heroism/Timewarp … or be my pocket Tank).

1079

it’s simple, blizzard wanted a melee beast master but BM is by far our most popular spec. you don’t change the spec that 95% of casual hunters play just so they can use loque’nahak.

instead they decided to destroy survival because it had a crap bleed and 1 talent that buffed raptor strike 15 years ago. and apparently blizzard lacks creativity when it comes to archer design.

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1080

You forgot that all melee abilities were in the Survival Spellbook, not BM or MM. BM had Rexxar, SV has ability history and lore.

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1081

Mastery rules this out. You lose both damage and HP per second.

1082

well yea because in vanilla we were a cohesive class instead of 3 mini classes and could use abilities from every spellbook. melee was an aspect we had to deal with no matter what spec we played. if melee range was our weakness it made sense to put melee things in the survival category, just like wing clip, traps, feign death, disengage, etc. the problem is blizzard and their ignorance look at things like that and think they can just chop up the class into 1/3’s and make people happy.

7 Likes
1083

Still doesn’t make what I said any less true. If I’m reading this wrong let me know. I’m reading a lot of sarcasm.

1084

i didn’t say you’re wrong that SV had melee skills in it’s spellbook. i’m saying vanilla was a different game and a different class. we weren’t restricted to one thing like we are now.

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1085

I read it wrong then, and I am sorry for that.

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1086

Don’t want to discuss with you that Mastery can be changed no problem, Blizzard did so on multiple occasions.
Keep the HP per sec, and changes the Damage part …

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1087

Why don’t want to discuss it?

1088

…
Because nothing … is set in stone. In a Game you can literally change everything.

The Survival Mastery gives Plus Damage when the Pet is around and HP per second? Now what, just change it, Blizzard did that with many Classes/Specialisations in the past.

1089

True.

Change it to what exactly?

1090

"“As for melee Arms … the base was Mortal Strike, Overpower … Slam … and that’s it.
They could make one Talent that exchanges all Fury Skills with those.”

- Similarly clueless statement

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1091

I came back for a month for Classic.
Your post pretty much sums it up for me.

Every couple of months I check back here to see if there’s any glimmer of hope they bring RSV back, but it doesn’t look too promising.

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1092

If you tried to sound smart with this … thank you for playing, please try again.

Your statement, as well as mine could be used on close if not all DPS Specializations for each Class. They all have a handful Core Abilities …

Beastmaster Hunter? Kill Command, Arcane Shot(now Cobra Shot), Barbed Shot(before Steady Shot, then Dire Beast) and Multi-Shot.

You can continue to dissect the rest, have fun with it!

1 Like
1093

Both yes and no.

On one hand, they did give us ranged SV.

On the other, they took it away in favor of something else entirely.
Why? I would stand by the assumption that they just wanted to give the class a melee spec.

Could it also have been because they did not know what to do with ranged SV, going forward?
Maybe.

They said in that interview back then that ranged SV lacked a core theme.
Personally, such a statement baffles me completely. To me, it’s always been VERY clear what that spec should be about.

In my own suggestions, sure, I’ve changed my mind a few times(thanks to feedback from others). But that has been more towards specific design elements on for example talents.

The theme/fantasy of the spec as a whole, has remained clear.

Indeed we were. And some do very much like this. While others do not.

True.

And Classic embraces that old design almost to a T.

There are ways you could retain the current design approach while at the same time loosening certain restrictions. But the big question would then be: Which would actually turn out for the better?

Those effects sure can be changed.

And frankly, I hope they do this to several of them in the future. IMO, Mastery-effects that simply adds bonus damage without affecting your way of playing at all, isn’t that fun.

Take BM: Pet damage increased by X%

Isn’t there anything you could do to make it more interesting?

Anyway…

Whether you like a type of Mastery or not I guess is very subjective.

My suggestion for a mastery to ranged SV looks like this:

Mastery Bonus: Neurotoxin
Black Arrow has a chance, based on your Mastery, to instantly be applied with 2-3 stacks.
In addition, any abilities used by the hunter that deals periodic damage will have an increased chance to cause a critical hit on targets below 20% health. Also based on your Mastery.

Example: Lets say you have 30% Mastery. This means that Black Arrow would have a 30% chance to instantly be applied with 2-3 stacks on the enemy target. At all times, not just during Rapid Fire.
And, all abilities/effects you have that deals periodic damage, would have a 30% increased chance to critically hit any target below 20% health remaining

Will everyone like this? Probably not. And it does have a base increase to damage. Just that it has the potential to affect your choices in combat. Which is what makes it fun to me.

You’re not the only one! We never give up!:blush:

This is true for the most part yes. Especially for damage-based specs/classes.

My hope is that a ranged SV spec could provide us with more baseline things due to it’s DoT-approach. While having fewer talent-based niched abilities.

On a different note

Here’s to post nr1000(incl Ogdenir’s OP)!

Keep it up guys;)

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