So, what frost and unholy would do for death knight?
Feral, Guardian, Brewmaster.
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Same thing, why be against another?
Looks like I forgot two.
Exactly.
It might be but still, I wouldnât exactly say that splitting the class into multiple ones would have a higher chance of happening. Nor is there really any need for that to be doneâŚ
You mean move it to BM along with the melee-aspects? Or you mean keep it as an ability intended for the new RSV spec?
I would much rather have a damaging trap to deal with as that fits the old RSV better, if you ask meâŚ
We donât. Simple as that.
Itâs not about actual requirements for the most part. More about preferred sub-roles within the roster.
Not talking as much about actual mechanics as opposed to whether the fantasy of a melee-spec for the class has any ties to the game/world. Which it clearly does.
Because RSV was a spec and a playstyle that many players loved. It was a spec with a potential to be really unique and being capable of providing the class as a whole with additional strengths in combat.
Because RSV made sense. Because it fit the overall fantasy.
I keep going back to one of my older questions. Why does it have to be a case of either-or when it comes to the various Survival specs/playstyles that weâve had?
The mindset that we should only have a max of 3 specs for the Hunter class is what needs to go away. There isnât really a legitimate reason for why it shouldnât.
3 Likes
Because a 4th spec isnât justified. Druid had 1 spec covering 2 roles.
If virtually nobody plays MSV, why keep it around? The Devs only have so much time. Time that is being wasted hopelessly revamping MSV every expac.
What does MSV even bring to the class? Its basically just a gimped version of BM. Nothing more. Being locked into melee combat isnât a bonus, itâs a handicap.
How could you even differentiate between RSV and MSV if we did get RSV back? I mean, arenât specs supposed to be unique?
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I see the revisions as a way to make the spec more appealing to a larger crowd. It does not show that Blizzard felt melee made the spec more unavailable that only it was for one too over cumbered with abilities, and need more utility. Taking out the ânecessary evilâ would just be a complete cruel kindness to many in that they would be just appeasing one side again.
Once you choose melee you have no other options, you are stuck in that play-style. However, MSV could be divide by other melee spec buy being able to switch in combat from melee to range at a drop of a hat.
It could be similar to classic in Hunter switch depending on distance from target. MSV is close to this now as they can still use most of abilities just not their hardest hitting attacks.
You can not know this, you can only make a assumptions based on your own biases. You can not for see what player will choose down the expansion. If players are still picking MSV over two range options then it will still have its crowds.
As long as it has it players it has a say in what direction it should go, even the smallest of pebbles thrown into a pond can create the largest of ripples.
How about the abilities that MSV like, WFB, Mongoose Bite, SS? How would they fit into BM? To move melee to BM would kill off another play-style. Blizzard would have had to start with melee BM, once you open up Pandoraâs box you can not just close it and forget.
Again making a supposition based on you won disdain for MSV. It is these kind of ideas that make you come off as a spoiled kid who does not share his toys. You are not a Blizzard employee and you can not get into their heads to make any conclusion to what they their plans are for MSV.
It been said by Blizzard if they could have redone classes they would have made each one have two specs, as it a pain to balance each one around another.
This is why MSV/RSV should be one in the same. Either through a talent option or more hybridization. There would not be need for a fourth spec and players could choose between to play-style without the need for changing specs. Then it would not be a distinction of RSV over MSV it would just be SV again.
Hereâs a downside, we know that Blizzard uses talents to force a playstyle, you might appear to get what you want, but you wont really get it.
It is a talent that would just replace a melee attack with range. Can not see how that would cause a huge issue, you want melee do not use it, but if you want to play range then you can take a talent.
A lot like a talent that gives a DPS buff you you donât use pet?
If the talent is balanced then that would not be a issue.
That goes back to what I am saying now doesnât it?
You a glass half-empty kind of player.
Iâm a pragmatist by nature and I do try to make people actually think sometimes, well, usually. If Blizzard wants a certain playstyle, they have shown that they are willing to do what it takes to get that certain playstyle.
Much as I believe the spec system needs serious design work in all cases, MSV is very much intentional.
Personally, Iâd love to see movement away from defined specs, into a system that allows the player to utilise their class instead, while augmenting their skills through a talent system closer to Vanilla, Diablo 3 or even Borderlands.
This will decimate certain playstyles, and I honestly expect similar backlash in this change.
Balance would be effected, but replaced with enjoyment for their play. With the rumoured level squish, this would be an opportune time to implement such changes.
It doesnât actually have to be restricted to situations where itâs about different roles. It can also be justified where thereâs a playstyle with a strong identity that does not fit any of the others available to us, through the other specs.
Especially in the case of RSV that was a playstyle weâve had previously but was taken away from us, despite the fact that it wasnât justified to do so.
As far as spec identity and uniqueness goes, I would ask you to check out the link here and then come back to me about where that would otherwise fit in:
(not talking about specific talents or effects as much as the general fantasy/theme)
That doesnât really have merit. We got the official statement with MSV when it was implemented that they knew they were creating a niche spec that would not necessarily attract many current hunters. It was mostly designed for new players to try the class out.
If the mere topic of participation numbers or popularity would really play into it that much, they wouldâve scrapped the melee-approach after Legion.
True. Though everything in this game takes time. All aspects of development takes time.
It is fairly obvious that the decision to create MSV was not due to player demand. It was because they(devs) wanted to create MSV.
A focus on Melee-combat.
But as for specific strengths that the class did not have previously? It doesnât really bring anything.
Iâm referring to my suggested design for a RSV spec in the link:
Is your opinion that my suggestions are too similar to that of MSV?
I would argue that WFB could be a talent, perhaps on the same row as A Murder of Crows(or a replacement for it, as I would prefer for AMoC to be baseline anyway).
Mongoose Bite could also be a talent. A replacement for Kill Command.
SS doesnât really fit with MSV. I meanâŚsure, you can stick it in there but, it doesnât really have any ties to the melee-focus of the spec.
Ironically, it would actually fit better with being part of the BM spec rather than now as a part of MSV.
First off, yeah, they mightâve said that. But they didnât do that.
People are obsessed with balance and numbers. And actually, we have had certain periods where balance havenât been catastrophic. Despite the general 3 spec design for classes.
BfA might not be the best on that part, but so far, the attempts at balance that weâve seen in the expansion are incredibly few. I would argue that they arenât really focusing much on balance atm. Unless suddenly something appears on the PTR.
And honestlyâŚadding 1 more spec to the mix wouldnât really do much. It would barely make a dent in terms of time spent on balancing in todays WoW.
Also, they keep adding new classes to the game every other expansion. That takes time to create. That takes time to balance.
Should they stop that as well? Will they?
This would only hold up if the playstyle that people are asking for, is MSV just with a ranged weapon. Which most of us are notâŚ
Most of us who are asking for RSV to return, are asking for the Explosive Shot spec we had prior to Legion.
Apart from Serpent Sting, there isnât really anything within MSV that fits the old RSV playstyle.
We have Classic already.
I wouldnât want to go back to that class design.
Exactly this. Some might want class design to be more general in itâs baseline approach while having talents and such that only have minor effects on the baseline toolkit.
But a lot of players donât want this.
Sure, the current focus might not be perfect. But since the old approach has already returned, thereâs less incentive to do it forâŚâretailâ as well.
2 Likes
melee hunter is an abomination and detrimental to the hunter class. with hunters being built around range, even with melee survival spec it will never be as good as a warrior, so why bother. it also makes them have to waste time thinking about how spec shared abilities will work for melee, instead of keeping the focus on what hunters were always about: ranged physical dps.
we have enough melee in the game and survival just serves to water down itself and ranged hunters, while never letting either reach the potential they could if the class was purely ranged or melee.
7 Likes
Oh, completely agree.
The general playstyles are completely underwhelming, I think thereâd be a way to revert to classes without the loss of QoL weâve gained over the years. Especially in the case of Hunters with completely ridiculous aspects, such as planted auto shots, ammo taking bag space, and mana as a resource.
Yeah, itâs going to be brutal to introduce any such drastic changes.
Hopefully, thereâs at least a shift from the pruning, that allow options past the non-situational gameplay, on top of the regular playstyles that are comfortable with instanced PvE when designed well.
Thanks for the link:
The content creator seemed pretty excited for MSV, and had shown that despite performance, there was massive precedent in Survival being the melee spec, that it was only a matter of time that it had to return to itâs origin.
I mean, there wasnât really any precedent. Melee had become more and more distant from the class over time and as of MoP and WoD there were no melee-exclusive mechanics whatsoever. Add to that the fact that no Hunter spec had ever been exclusively melee before. A melee-only Hunter spec was entirely unprecedented.
7 Likes
Oh, completely agree in that over time the spec has moved further into the ranged aspect as the playstyles (and talent system) had evolved into defined specs with a design of their own. While a vanilla survival gameplay had aspects of both melee and ranged, considering the blending of the specs at the time, that isnât to say that inspirations were not present.
Whatever the developerâs intent (despite our viewpoint for and against), the earliest incarnations of the spec seem to have given them the reasons to make such a change. Which in itâs very definition, is a precedent.
It is surprising that Ogdenir should link such a video in this thread, as the creator was legitimately excited for Legionâs MSV.