this thread almost has the most replies of any class forum thread. range SV coming soon!
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This part is fairly obvious at this stage yes.
But I ask againâŚwhy?
What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to convince the rest of us that your opinion is the only one that is right?
All youâre doing is posting your opinion over and over again. In a thread that is all about the exact opposite of how you feel.
Youâre saying that we are wasting our time, trying to come up with solutions for how the playstyle that we liked, can be brought back.
Even when more people in general are moving away from the idea that MSV should be reverted, and start looking towards other solutions. You still continueâŚ
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Because this thread serves no purpose other than feeding peopleâs delusions, and dividing the player base.
Obviously.
I guess constructive feedback has no place on these forums?
Besides. Thatâs just how you see it.
We already know that you do not share our preferences towards the hunter class.
Has been the case since they(devs) first decided to axe the old RSV in favor of the new melee spec. Without actually asking the community.
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Debating a dead spec isnât productiveâŚat all.
Niether is derailing the subject inorder to push it into a melee vs range fight.
This has nothing to do with, which side of SV is better. It has always been just about finding a way that RSV could return.
MSV does not need to be sacrificed. There are others options that we have talked about that keeps both versions.
You however want to start infighting to appease your own selfish needs.
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This is circular logic.
They redefined the Hunter identity to fit melee Survival which means melee Survival fits the Hunter identity because they redefined the Hunter identity to fit melee Survival because ⌠yeah.
You have to cherry-pick pretty much patch 6.2 on its own to make it look like ranged SV was usually unpopular; or you have to include the pre-WotLK iterations were all 3 specs were pretty much the same gameplay and identity. From the time SV was made an independent damage dealing spec with its own gameplay style (3.0) to when it was made melee (7.0) it usually ranged between fairly popular to extremely popular, with 6.2 being pretty much the only exception.
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You still are using outdated data. No matter how much you want to pretend that itâs not, it still outdated. Hereâs a fun fact, they get to decide what Hunters are and how they can change it. Not you, not me, them.
Howâs your reading comprehension? Reread what I said. Youâre slipping again.
Sorry if Iâve missed your basis somewhere. Are you discussing spec representation/popularity?
True, they have the final say.
Though, I would argue that making decisions solely with your own personal(dev team) preferences in mind, is not really the healthiest of things you can do, if you want people to continue to play your game.
And it is a fact, that when they decided to axe the old ranged SV spec in favor of making it melee. They did not do this because there was a overwhelming demand for that to happen among the players.
It was all them.
And the result?
On average, the representation of the SV spec(looking at the amount of characters sitting at level 120. Not just in PvE), it has never been lower(as far as data logs go back).
Now, having said thisâŚ
I just want to, once again, point out that arguing for the removal of MSV in favor of bringing back RSV, wouldnât exactly be a good solution either.
The only outcome, would be that suddenly, those of us who wants RSV back, are satisfied while those who likes MSV, are not.
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In that case itâs the diffenition of the Hunter Class in World of Warcraft as given by Blizzard Entertainment, the people who make the game. He wants to go off of old information because it hurts his argument not to. It actually hurts his argument to do it in the first place anyways.
While true, in the end we have to vote with out wallets in large enough numbers to get their attention.
Also, I think I got the ban hammer.
Ah
Here specifically, I canât say that I agree with him. I actually think that the aspect of melee combat can suit the class very well. You have countless of ingame characters that are hunters who focus on fighting with melee weapons. Including one or two major Lore characters.
The only thing that makes me reluctant to completely accept MSV as part of the class, is the fact that they gave it to us as a replacement for what so many(me included) thought of as being the most fun spec in the game. That was ranged SV.
If they wouldâve given it to us as a 4th spec from the beginning, we wouldâve had so much less to stirr up these endless discussions.
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Hmm, my response to this part somehow did not end up in the final replyâŚ
Sorry Naham, dno why it didnât.(Posted on my phone so, maybe that was the reason:/)
Anyway.
True, players cancelling subscriptions is a way to show(sometimes) whether they like whatâs being done to the game or not.
Though, most who bother to provide a reason for why they cancel it, will most likely not go into detail/specifics as to what parts they donât like(more importantly, why not).
Nor do they often provide examples of what would be a good change.
And either way, I would argue that by the time people start to quit, it will be too late. Sure, some might come back later on, but thatâs no guarantee.
And, looking at our end(as players), if we dislike something or think something is not right for the game. Sure, we can quit. But we canât expect that things will suddenly turn for the better without saying something.
Stay silent and thereâs no hope really of things turning out as you want them to. Providing suggestions/thoughts of your own is no guarantee either. But at least youâve done what you can.
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Itâs not a matter of âdataâ and itâs still circular logic.
You might be satisfied with âmight is rightâ and revising the standards of success after-the-fact but Iâm not.
Something about BM being more popular? SV still leads in much of the WotLK-WoD period which is what most people think of when they think âranged SVâ, but Iâm sure BM leads SV before and since that period and at least a couple times during it. But not often. Iâm also sure that BM was a very popular spec for solo/casual play, too, but we can never know to what extent. Nor is any of this really relevant to the conversation as to whether SV was a popular spec when it was ranged, because it provably was.
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When Legion hit, they updated the information of the Class. Nothing circular about it.
What are you talking about. Itâs their intellectual property, itâs their game. Itâs not might is right, itâs that they own it and they get to make changes.
Yes.
Do you think that BM draws more people to the game? I do. Look at the bulk of the questions newcomers come to ask about. I mean I could go on more, but you often try to play off what I say as something else, and even you try to claim that I say things that I have not, which is weird since my posts are there to read.
Sure. BM has always been a popular spec for the class. No doubt about it.
Has it always been the most popular/played? No it hasnât.
But what does this have to do with the statement that RSV was popular in the past?
You know my standpoint on the current specs Naham.
But to your logic, current MSV, is the least popular hunter spec overall, by a margain.
Should we delete it?
MSV since it became MSV, has always been the least popular/played hunter spec overall(by a margain). Should we delete it?
Like I said, I donât think that we should. Because I donât judge based on popularity alone.
Edit:
And yes, you said that you thought the old SV was too similar to that of MM when we still had it.
You base this statement on the fact that you thought the mechanical setup of SV made you press buttons at the same time as you usually did when playing the other specs.
I strongly disagree with that as I played SV back then to. I very much know how different the pacing was.
And like before, sry for my English. Itâs not my first languageâŚ
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I was asking him since he seems to think that SVâs been our most popular spec even though it wasnât. Yes it had a cult following, no that doesnât mean that it was the most popular.
Not a problem this time. You and I will never agree anyways on this, and we ainât alone on our sides of the line either.
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Entirely depends on what period you look at.
During some periods, it was our most popular(read: most registered characters were playing as it) spec.
I would urge you to look up the word âcultâ and what it actually is a reference to/description of.
But anyway, I understand what youâre getting at.
The thing is, the way you associate the people that have an interest in the old SV, and what youâre getting at with calling them(us) a âcultâ, you can just as easily apply this to the current MSV and to a lot of players talking about it.
Now, I donât think that this particular description applies to MSV fans either. All it really is, is players who like a particular playstyle.
All youâre trying to do when phrasing it like that, is making it sound like weâre wrong for saying that we liked a part of the game that has been taken away.
It doesnât matter which spec you apply this situation to. Take away any spec in the game, and you will have people who would want it back.
Why?
Because we ARE DIFFERENT.
Iâm not saying that you have to like the playstyle as well.
But, just because we do not love the new SV as well, that doesnât make our claims wrong or any less valid.
Again, looking at spec representation, no it wasnât always that. But for some periods, it wasâŚ
Depends on what youâre talking about.
As for how we view the design and feel of a spec. No. We probably wont. Because we both tend to value different elements of what makes a spec unique.
(The only real problem I have with your point of view, is that you present it with the purpose of keeping a playstyle that many people liked, out of the game. Despite the fact that there are ways to bring it back without âhurtingâ you/ -r interests).
If youâre referring to whether RSV should come back or not. This would only apply to the case if it was about keeping current MSV or if we should scrap it in favor of bringing back RSV.
Which, for me, isnât what this is all about. And you know that already.
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From the beginning until now in this instance.
Itâs a pop-culture thing. Cult Classics are good analog when it comes to entertainment media.
As a whole.
Itâs not necessarily that, but if you take that out of the equation, what comes up with what I say. When I think about things, even stances like the Specs were redundant and played the same way too long, I put myself out of it, I keep questioning my conclusions as if I did and didnât place myself out of it. I do my absolute best to remove my ego (Personality, Opinions, Skillset) out of it. Iâll argue both sides of it in my head.
Are you saying that only the spec that, across the entire history of WoW, has been the most popular(most represented one), is the spec that should be kept in the game?
And also. Didnât you say that ânowâ(modern WoW), is not relevant to the discussion?
Or was that only about whether if we should compare spec similarities/differences or not?
Probably missed your point here but.
Are you saying that we only want RSV back because it was something that we had in the past?
If this is what you meant thenâŚno.
The only way you can justify looking at how popular a particular spec has been across the entire history of the game, is if that spec actually existed for the entire history.
Which RSV didnât.
The only thing we can actually do here, is look at RSVâs popularity/representation for the time when we had it. And, then compare it to the other hunter specs(or other classes), and look at how popular they have been throughout history/are currently.
I could stand behind you on this, if you actually looked at all parts of spec design. And not just the pacing.
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