And mobility. We’re agreeing more than not, but I’m working so going further will have to wait.
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I personally made a hunter to attack from range, while my pet helped me. That’s one thing I miss about survival. The dots. The cleave. The sustained dmg.
Hunters are so broken right now. Especially after losing this spec
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Personally, I love current Survival Hunter. I mained Survival back when it was first changed in Cataclsym. I didn’t really think it was much different than Marksmanship at the time. I think what people miss is what Survival used to be in Cata/Mop. Thing is, if it stayed around long enough to see BfA pruning/changing specs, it would look similar to todays Marksmanship.
My only gripe with Survival today is the mini crossbow for serpents sting. I took inspiration from Huln Highmountain for my HM tauren hunter. All the abilitys fit to the T… besides the stupid mini crossbow. just visually change it to a bomb or something.
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Could MSV be redesigned to be more like a classic ranger archetype, being proficient at both range and melee combat?
MSV has one true melee attack while its remaining are range, and AotE sure range is nice but for 15 seconds every 1.5 minutes? Could Blizzard just have raptor strike between two modes that changes depending on distance from the target?
MSV could fight up close but if you need to create some distance or kite you could just use disengage, which changes raptor strike to arcane shot.
You would have a very mobile melee spec with open movement.
The WoW manual was very explicit in stating that ranged weapons were the core of the Hunter identity.
So what? In Siege of Orgimmar BM was flat-out stronger than Survival numerically yet more people played Survival. It had a real following that could stand up to BM.
At least ranged SV was good enough to see several world first kills while melee SV has still seen none 
Like I said in the other thread: I believe in being thorough. Usually my posts are long because I’m responding to multiple people/posts at once. I don’t like leaving arguments unchallenged. I also like to pre-empt responses to my arguments.
I don’t use “thesaurus” arguments. In fact, I deliberately avoid that. What I do try to do is have some variety in my vocabulary. I don’t like when I see the same words many times over in my posts. For example, I use the words “absolutely”, “pretty much”, “also”, and “actually” a lot so I try to use different words instead.
<Blizzard implements talents from ranged SV including Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Black Arrow, Lock and Load>
Hunters: “Wow, thanks, now can we have a way of being a full multidotter? Like a means of being rewarded and actively enticed to DoT as many arguments as possible? Can we have proper interaction between these abilities? And will we ever get more SV-themed abilities?”
Blizzard: “Well… not really, because they are different talents within a spec so they necessarily have no interaction with each-other, and we need plenty of classic MM-themed talents too. We don’t really want a spec to be fully defined by its talents…”
Hunters: “… WTB separate spec for these mechanics!”
- Why this has always been a bad idea
Option 6: Make a subspec of BM that makes the spec melee, i.e. a level 100 talent that swaps out Cobra Shot, Barbed Shot, Multi-Shot, Counter-Shot and Concussive Shot for melee equivalents in exchange for a significant damage/health boost. This simultaneously solves the issue of there only being a small subset of people who want melee and not all BM Hunters as well as the fact that a melee Hunter will necessarily be pet-dependent.
Yawn, this argument again, like there aren’t tons of potential mechanics for ranged SV from both official and unofficial suggestions. WoD alone saw interesting new mechanics for SV that were only abandoned because the spec itself was abandoned.
People don’t like support roles because they are by-definition dependent on other people. Once you’re in a solo situation being dependent on other people starts to really suck. Even in group situations most people don’t like their entire worth as a player being delivered through other players.
This is directly contrary to reality. Legion and BFA, for all their faults, made the specs much more different from one another. In fact, every expansion for every spec, with few exceptions (e.g. BFA Survival), increased the difference between them. If you took the exact same ranged SV of WoD and put it in today’s game, it would be far more different to MM than it was to WoD’s MM.
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This idea sounds great and would of been an more interesting change; howevere, think Blizzard is stuck on each spec having its own idenity.
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That’s nice. Now lets keep with outdated print, sure.
BM will and always has been more popular.
What’s it like being a meme? You shouldn’t talk about boring arguments yourself. Like I said in the other thread, you seem Pavlovian at times.
If it’s just a matter of changing 1 talent in order for BM to be(via choice) either ranged like it is now or a melee spec. Fine by me. A lot of the talent options available through the BM spec are fairly pointless anyways. IMO ofc.
They are either passive(most don’t really have much impact on what you do). And the active ones, that provide various abilities, are all stand-alones, that you use on CD.
Removing one of them, in order to put in something like the above. Would be okay with that.
Having said that. Those Gladiator-esque talents you speak of, causes a lot of problems on their own. Now, I’m not one to put balancing and tuning ahead of design and fantasy but still, might cause a few issues.^^
Personally though, I wouldn’t mind getting rid of Spitting Cobra(level 100 talent). I still haven’t seen a single hunter who actually uses it but, hey, not seen 'em all ofc…
You would have the problem of those who would want to keep several aspects of the current MSV spec though. Should something else be brought over from that spec into BM as well?
I’ve seen many who for examples likes the “Bloodseeker”-talent found in MSV. You could easily make that a baseline addition to BM that fits it’s ranged side too.
Make it a level 10 talent option,
Beast Within: You and your pet become one. Giving up your bow and fighting side by side. Cobra Shot is replaced with Raptor Strike and Carve replaces Multi Shot.
Haha making BM melee now …O God.
So much cringe.
You were all for the idea, what change?
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…I was obviously being facetious…
Or you are a person who states one thing that is in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings, in order to continue this failed trolling that you have tried since the start of this post.
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You mean a contrarian?
Not really; a contrarian is someone who goes out of their way to disagree with the mainstream viewpoints.
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Think whatever you want champ lol. I was responding to another ridiculous idea in this post. Go ahead and read into it all you want.
And Naham what is this intervention with Kindwolf day? Get out of here with that Malarkey…
O God Boopples showed up…
I was talking about his definition.
Leave me out of this.
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It only became “outdated” as of Legion which rewrote the definition.
Even so, it’s very important when discussing what it means to be a Hunter in WoW. Just because they changed it after the fact doesn’t change the fact that they introduced a spec that did not fit the Hunter definition. It’s like if a kid promised his parents he would eat more vegetables before deciding that fruit-flavoured candy counted as vegetables and eating more of those instead. It doesn’t make it right.
We literally can’t know what the general spec proportions of the class are across the whole game but in raiding at least there have been several tiers where SV was more popular. In SoO BM was the clear winner in DPS yet there were still more SV Hunters, which suggests that in that tier SV was indeed more popular than BM in general.
You like to hold up this persona of being a reasonable person but posts like these prove you aren’t.
I would go with “Way of the Mok’Nathal”. I know it was the name of a particularly maligned but necessary Legion SV talent but to me it better conveys choosing that particular combat style.
You would also have to replace Barbed Shot, and to me Lacerate would be the easy choice there. In terms of utility, Concussive Shot and Counter Shot would have to change to Wing Clip and Muzzle. Some talents would have to change too, namely Barrage, Chimera Shot, and Binding Shot. Barrage should be Butchery, most likely. Chimera Shot would have to be a new ability (Chimera Strike?). I’m not sure about Binding Shot. Current Survival still uses it but it has Serpent Sting in the base toolkit which “sort-of” justifies it.
The biggest problem I see is that it would need to be balanced to a point where it wasn’t a dead-end pick but also wasn’t so dominant as to necessitate raiding as melee BM. Even if it did more raw damage, as long as it wasn’t to a ridiculous degree like +10% the base ranged BM would be more desirable for raiding. Plus, I think there’s value in a spec that basically has the same gameplay as melee v.s. ranged making it an easy transition between them, and it seems to me a lot of the people who like the melee Hunter fantasy aren’t so concerned with it being fully cutting-edge raid viable anyway. Like current Survival, it would be an option for people who like that fantasy while also being useful in situations where you want melee, however few those situations are.
It would fit far better than Survival being melee. As much as you like to pretend it isn’t the case, a melee Hunter heavily depends on a pet by necessity so it only makes sense for the melee combat to be in the pet-focused spec. The issue then is that most of the people playing that spec don’t want to be melee, so making it a subspec is a good compromise. There are issues associated with that (e.g. it’s a lot of functionality packed into one talent) but IMO they are all far less fundamental and pressing than the issues associated with every other approach.
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