Kindwolf has demonstrated that he really does care about what other people think of him, though. Exhibit A: crying all over the classic forums when he found out that Survival was not actually melee in Classic and getting mad when everyone told him to pound sand.
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You do it while moving, trying to get the fish to chase the bait, often a lure. There are a number of small motors made just for it. Itâs fun but it can easy to go too fast.
Then thatâs why they are still here, cause they still get the attention they require.
Maybe one day we can all go fishing together.
Be nice and I know a few spots out here, though panhead was plentiful at one last weekend and those need a tag like do.
For the hundredth time Bepples, lol that name, I do play Arms.
And Iâm not trying to recreate anything, thatâs you and the RSV heads.
Call me whatever you want, you just donât like to hear anyone with dissenting opinions.
Why are you using the forums again? You want an echo chamber, go back to your parents basement.
Can Bepples come too?
Yes, that is a crazy concept. Because MM is pretty crappy and doesnât even remotely resemble Ranged Survival or even any decent version of Marksmanship. Which just leaves the pet cheerleader with the bb gun.
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If you are not responding to me, consider this post a mistake.
I am not hating you for liking melee surv spec. Actually it proved to me that Blizzard did find a melee surv spec audience. So good for you and Blizzard.
Again, there is line between celebrating and bragging/gloating.
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I leave the drama on the forums.
Been following this thread for a while along with other ones on this hunter forum. Decided to now bring my own contribution over from the EU Hunter forum.
Now, we all have our opinions as well as preferences on what we want for this class. If you ask me, the request to revert current M-Survival in favor of a reworked R-Survival spec is unlikely to happen. Nor do I think that reworking either BM or MM to fit it in will have a very successful outcome.
In short, R-Survival needs to be the 4th spec option.
What has been done in the past to further enhance the vision of certain specs, we saw this the last time when they decided to split Feral Druids into Guardian/Feral Combat. So if there is enough motivation and plausible grounds for a 4th spec. Who knowsâŚ
I created this thread below in May this year, it contains my vision for what the fantasy/unique identity for R-Survival could be. https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/pre-legion-survival-spec-fantasy/47579
Som keypoints with it:
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The theme of the spec is very much about the DoT-concept. Building them up. You opt into a very consistent playstyle that does not rely on heavy-hitters. Much like the fantasy was with the old spec.
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It holds some elements that are focused on pet use. We already have MM that is supposed to be the Ranger-spec.
And still, anything that further enhances your pet/you through your pet is entirely optional(talent choices). This to allow those that donât want to rely much on pets beyond the very basics, can still do so.
The full post can be viewed in the link but Iâll paste the main parts below.
Remember that any numbers mentioned are purely there to give context. Testing is ofc required to ensure any level of balance.
Core Abilities
Cobra Shot - A fast shot that deals X% of weapon damage as Physical damage.
Generates 7 Focus. Instant cast.
Explosive Shot - You fire an explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing Fire damage. The charge will blast the target every second for an additional 4sec.
2 charges. 10 sec recharge.
Serpent Sting - Fire a shot that poisons your target, causing them to take Nature damage over 15 sec.
Black Arrow - Fires a Black Arrow at the target, dealing Shadow damage over 12 sec.
Quick Shot - Deals X% weapon damage as Physical damage. Costs 25 Focus.
Immolation Trap - When triggered, causes periodic Fire damage to the target over 20 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
Note: Some talent choices affect how often you can use it along with what it does.
Multi-Shot - Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and all enemies within 8 yards for X% weapon damage as Physical damage.
Multi-Shot applies the Serpent Spread(Passive) -effect to all targets hit.
Note: The idea is that this is not something you use constantly but only as a way to maintain Serpent Sting on multiple targets.
Major Cooldown
Rapid Fire - Increases your haste by X%, and on use, grants a charge of Explosive Shot(triggers Lock & Load).
While Rapid Fire is active, the first hit of Explosive Shot when cast will reset the remaining cooldown of Black Arrow, and the periodic damage effect applied by Black Arrow can now stack up to 3 times.
If you, during Rapid Fire, use Explosive Shot on an enemy affected by Black Arrow, then each explosion from the charge will cause the toxin to spread to other nearby enemies.
Rapid fire lasts for 20 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
Due to some recent feedback, Iâve decided to add a replacement for the DoT-spread mechanic of Rapid Fire, when in instanced PvP.
Your Explosive Shot will no longer be able to automatically spread any periodic damage effect caused by Black Arrow. Instead, you now have an additional passive effect that is always active, regardless of if your Rapid Fire is or isnât.
If your Black Arrow is at any time dispelled or otherwise removed from an enemy target, you will instantly gain a free charge of Black Arrow.
Note: This is not a CD reset mechanic. This works like Lock and Load does for Explosive Shot, that it would add an extra charge of Black Arrow on top of what you already have.
Mastery Bonus Suggestions
(1) Mastery Bonus: Neurotoxin
Black Arrow has a chance, based on your Mastery, to instantly be applied with 2-3 stacks.
In addition, any abilities used by the hunter that deals periodic damage will have an increased chance to cause a critical hit on targets below 20% health. Also based on your Mastery.
Example: Lets say you have 30% Mastery. This means that Black Arrow would have a 30% chance to instantly be applied with 2-3 stacks on the enemy target. At all times, not just during Rapid Fire.
And, all abilities/effects you have that deals periodic damage, would have a 30% increased chance to critically hit any target below 20% health remaining.
(2) Mastery Bonus: Mixologist
Elemental Damage increased by an amount equal to your mastery.
(Any damage caused that is not Physical damage. Meaning: Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature or Shadow-based).
Passive effects
Lock and Load - Periodic damage caused by Black Arrow and Immolation Trap have a chance to add 1 extra charge of Explosive Shot which will consume no focus when fired.
Note: Getting a proc from Lock & Load, wonât affect the base re-charge system of Explosive Shot.
Example: If you have 2 charges of Explosive Shot available and you get a L&L-proc, you will then have 3 charges. 1 of which costs no Focus.
Keep in mind that L&L has a limited duration.
When the buff expires, so does any extra charge(s) that you havenât yet used.
Enhanced Traps/Trap Mastery
-Gain the Immolation Trap ability.
-Tar applied by Tar Trap can now be set on fire by Immolation Trap, causing any enemy who stands in it to take increasing damage over time for itâs duration/as long as the enemy stands in it.
-The trigger radius as well as the radius of the effect on your Tar Trap is increased by 25%.
-Freezing Trap can now be triggered manually by the hunter once placed, causing it to form a fragile Ice Block that you can stand behind to protect yourself from frontal attacks until shattered.
The ice block shatters after 8 seconds or once it has taken enough damage.
Manually triggering it requires you to stand in close vicinity to the trap.
Steady Focus - Using Cobra Shot several times in a row will increase the amount of focus gained from each shot by 4. Stacking up to 3 times.
Serpent Spread - Targets hit by Multi-Shot are also afflicted by Serpent Sting equal to 9 sec of itâs duration.
Exotic Munitions - Your auto attacks have a chance to increase the remaining duration of either Serpent Sting, Black Arrow or Immolation Trap by 5 seconds on an enemy affected by either of these periodic damage effects.
Note: When a proc occurs, it can only increase the duration of one the above mentioned periodic damage effects at a time.
Other abilities
Aspect of the Turtle - Works like it currently does on live.
Aspect of the Cheetah - Works like it currently does on live.
Exhilaration - Works like it currently does on live.
Call Pet - Works like it currently does on live.
âŚalong with other abilities such as Counter Shot, Concussive Shot, Mend Pet and moreâŚ
Talents
-Level 15-
T.N.T - If Explosive Shot is used on an enemy already affected by a previous charge, the chargeâs remaining duration is refreshed as well as increased by an additional 3 seconds. An active charge can only have a max duration of 9 seconds.
Exotic Munitions-procs now also increase the remaining duration of any active Explosive Shot charge you have on the current target by 3 seconds.
Toxicology - Increases the periodic critical damage of your Serpent Sting and Black Arrow by 25%, and Serpent Sting now deals ever increasing damage against targets below 30% health.
Dire Frenzy - Replaces Quick Shot. Causes your pet to enter a frenzy, performing a flurry of 5 attacks on the target.
This will enrage your pet, and if Dire Frenzy is cast again before the Enrage fades, the damage dealt is increased by 100%. Enrage lasts for 12 seconds.
3 charges. 8 second recharge time. Costs 35 Focus. Requires an active pet.
-Level 30-
Death Adder - Any time Serpent Sting is applied, it will also deal an additional 20% of itâs total damage instantly.
Also applies to Serpent Spread(Passive). In addition, every time Serpent Sting deals damage, you have a chance to gain 3 focus.
If the passive effect âExotic Munitionsâ procs while your Serpent Sting is active on the target, then this will also trigger the Death Adder-effect.
Requires the Death Adder-talent.
Alpha Predator - Whenever your pet hits an enemy, it gains 2% increased attack speed.
When at or above 30% increased attack speed, your petâs attacks have a high chance (equal to the amount of increased attack speed) to automatically trigger a Dire Frenzy attack. Also triggering the Enrage-effect. Requires an active pet.
When a Dire Frenzy attack occurs, you instantly gain 10 Focus but lose the increased attack speed on your pet.
Note: Using the ability Dire Frenzy(the talent) will not grant you the extra Focus, nor will it cause your pet to lose the increased attack speed.
The interaction between this talent and the Dire Frenzy-talent above is the ability to more easily maintain the Enrage buff on your pet.
Viper Venom - Every time Serpent Sting deals damage, there is a chance that your next Serpent Sting will consume no focus and deal 75% additional damage over itâs duration.
This effect can stack up to 4 times but will be consumed the next time Serpent Sting is used.
Note: This talent does not provide you with extra focus if picked. The goal is that, if you have this talent then basically all casts of Serpent Sting will be free.
-Level 45-
Utility talents , same as on live: Trailblazer, Natural Mending, Camouflage .
-Level 60-
Ferocious Inspiration - Dire Frenzy now deals damage to all nearby enemies.
Note: Dire Frenzy-attacks that proc thanks to the Alpha Predator-talent, will benefit from Ferocious Inspiration as well. The talent Dire Frenzy, is not required for Ferocious Inspiration to affect Alpha Predator.
Wildfire - The periodic damage effect applied by Immolation Trap will now spread to any enemy standing in close range to an already burning target.
As long as an enemy is within range of another enemy affected by Wildfire or Immolation Trap, the Wildfire will continue to spread.
Will ignore CCâd targets. Wildfire lasts for 8 seconds.
Ever Burning - Explosive Shot now deals damage to all enemies near your primary target.
-Level 75-
Utility talents , same as on live: Born to be Wild, Posthaste, Binding Shot .
-Level 90-
Spitting Cobra - Cobra Shot now extends the remaining duration of Serpent Sting on the enemy target by X sec, up to a max of 15 seconds.
In addition, Cobra Shot now has a high chance of generating double Focus when fired.
Note: You can continue to extend the duration of any Serpent Sting-debuff for as long as you want to. However, you can not manually extend the duration of a Serpent Sting-debuff above the baseline 15 second duration.
Pre-Heat - The cooldown of Immolation Trap is reduced by 5 seconds every time Immolation Trap deals critical damage to the enemy target.
In addition, if an enemy target dies while affected by Immolation Trap, itâs CD is reset.
Note: This effect only applies to the enemy who triggers your Immolation Trap. Not to enemies affected by Wildfire(talent).
Intoxication - Your ranged Auto Attacks have a chance to grant you 2 stacks of Intoxication. Lasts for X seconds.
When Black Arrow expires on an enemy, you gain this effect as well.
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Intoxication
Causes your abilities that deal instant damage, to be guaranteed critical strikes.
And causes your abilities that deal periodic damage to last for an additional X seconds, and critical damage caused by these abilities is increased by an additional X%.
-Level 100-
Rapid Recuperation - Every time your pet hits an enemy with itâs Basic Attack(Bite, Claw, Smack), the remaining cooldown of Rapid Fire is reduced by 2 seconds.
During Rapid Fire, each of your petâs Basic Attacks have a chance to hit one additional time while consuming no extra focus.
Catalysis - When Black Arrow deals damage to an enemy target, damage caused by Explosive Shot against that enemy is increased by 10%.
In addition, when one of your abilities deal Fire damage to an enemy affected by Black Arrow, you have a chance to gain this effect as well.
This effect lasts for X seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.
Resourcefulness - Reduces the cooldown of all traps and Black Arrow by 20%. Your Freezing Trap and Tar Trap both have a 100% chance to proc Lock & Load when triggered.
Freezing Trap when triggered manually can now withstand 100% more incoming damage before shattering.
When an enemy breaks free from your Freezing Trap, they will take an additional 10% damage from all sources for the next X seconds.
Critical hits from Immolation Trap causes an additional X% damage to the affected target.
NEW! - Set Bonus effects/Bonus Traits
Got no good names for these traits/bonuses yet butâŚ
Just wanted to add in some potential fun bonus effects that are spec specific. They can be tied to things such as Set Bonuses or something similar to Artifact Traits/Azerite Traits.
In what way we can get these, depends on what e.g. progression-system we get ofc.
Examples:
(1) Lock and Load now grants 2 charges of Explosive Shot when it procs, instead of 1.
(2) When you get a Exotic Munitions-proc. It will grant you an additional bonus effect depending on which periodic damage-effect it benefits.
Serpent Sting - Until the current Serpent Sting debuff expires or is refreshed, every time it deals damage to the target, you instantly gain 3 Focus.
Black Arrow - The remaining cooldown on Black Arrow is instantly reset.
Immolation Trap - Your next Immolation Trap will deal an extra X% damage and will also have an increased X% chance to critically hit the affected target.
(3) Your Mastery Bonus: Neurotoxinâs secondary effect now applies to enemies below 30% health remaining, up from 20%.
Note: This bonus effect might have to be set to enemies below 25%(or even 35%) health remaining, instead of 30%. This depends on balancing ofc.
6 Likes
Yeah read your ideas thought they would be great. I mentioned them a few times.
2 Likes
Thanks! I should admit that mightâve missed those. In my defense though, Iâve mostly read through this topic on my phone and it has been a bit of a pain so far.
(The two sentences here would have covered the entire screen on their own. Now imagine reading the entire post that way). ExcusesâŚ
But again, thanks for the references. Iâll check back further up this thread to see if I can find them^^
Btw, if there are any questions(as there usually are when proposing an entire spec concept). Feel free to ask. Iâll do my best to provide an explanation or thought process that serves as a basis for any choices Iâve made.
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Theyâer mixed in with some of my own ideas, so they maybe hard to find.
Thanks for posting. Try to remind there are hunters on the other side of the world, but NA posters think there is the only one Hunter forum.![:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:")
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Agreed. Survival should go back the way it was. If I wanted to play melee Iâd hop on my rogue. Also 1.25 Aimed shot while movable would be a nice addition to MM. they ALMOST got it right for adding scatter back, now just need monkey stun and MM fixed
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Bepples for president
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I will continue to read the comments in this thread.
Honestly, I donât really know why forums such as class forums are split into regions.
I can understand Realm Forums and why they should be specific to their respective region.
I can also understand that there is a need for forums where the main language is not English.
ButâŚif the intended language for the forum(s) is English. And if the forums are essentially the same. Why split them up?
Anyway, I decided to make a more elaborate as well as more focused post of my own on this forum.
Though, as I mainly play on the EU, this character is not allowed to post complete links(not even links to these very forums).
ButâŚhere is the topic, complete with my motivation for why we should have a ranged Survival spec in the game(as a 4th option):
https:// us.forums.blizzard. com/en/wow/t/pre-legion-survival-us-edition/201515?
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I like it, but instead how about giving it cobra shot with a passive on that on crit it procs the serpent sting instant damage or something along the lines of it proccing from what ever damage (seconds) is left over from the serpent sting dot ?
Instead of regular multi shot it would probably look nicer as side winders since they have the snake animation to it, and it also applies serpent spread .
Ok this and Steel trap should be baseline, itâs alot better than Trackers Net.
Got one better for you instead of this, Readiness returns but instantly lower the on all abilities (Giving back 1 stack on things like Explosive shot, and Barbed shot). So besides having those simple regular bursting cool downs (your basic old boring +10%-30%) you have something that gives you the ability to do more damage with more spells. You know more actives more awareness to your current situation.
I like the ideas but i believe most of the talents that has something to do with petâs should be moved over to bm so bm can rely more so on its pets while survival relies more on itâs traps and set ups. So more on cc since being similar to old survivalâs damage is more ramp and over time.
So instead Bm should be getting Alpha predator (AP), Dire Frenzy (DF), Ferocious inspiration (Fi), The beast within (TBW), and Rapid Recuperation (R&R); youâd replace them with Barbed shot for (DF), Something similar to venomous wounds for (Ap) - where when barb shot ticks it also gives focus Regen along with serpent sting / or keep steel trap as a talent for this instead.
Good ol Snake trap (snakes and different Debuffs) with root for (TBW), and a Turret with a nice tossing animation instead of Spitting Cobra (but basically the same as spitting cobra) For (R&R).
Nah MSV is the best the spec has ever been! No need to bring back a third string spec.
If Adam had came out before Legion and asked each class what their individual specs core fantasy was I wonder what we would have been left with?
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Well, I can see how you might want this. The thing is that Quick Shot with my design is intended to be an additional spender that you use whenever you have to much focus while having no need to spend any on refreshing DoTs etc.
Cobra Shot for Survival in the past was a focus builder. You can ofc still get Cobra Shot here from the talents, I put it in there as a way to remove an element of Physical Damage(that is Steady Shot), hence why Cobra Shot is intended to replace Steady Shot as your main builder.
Also, Steady Shot, you can cast it while moving around. But another thought behind adding Cobra Shot as the replacement here is to also allow for a bit of change-of-pace(Cobra Shot being an instant cast ability, as many players prefer this over casting, despite the lack of movement restrictions on both).
Having said this, there are ofc things you could do to improve the actual Cobra Shot-talent in itself. To make it more attractive as well as worthwhile. The increase to damage-component is just one way to do it.
Good suggestion(if you ask me), I would not oppose this. I had some early thoughts towards something like this as Iâm not really a huge fan of Multi-Shot in itself. But as Multi-Shot as an ability has had such a strong connection to the hunter class since the beginning. In the end, I decided to stick with Multi-Shot. But yeah, Iâm open to suggestions^^
I know MSV currently holds Steel Trap as well as Trackers Net as abilities. My intention however is not to remove the current melee survival spec.
Do you mean baseline as in, for all hunter specs? My hope was that this(Immolation Trap) could be exclusive to the new ranged spec. As the fantasy of enhanced traps was what it was very much about in the past.
Now, we all have our preferences ofc.
I always viewed Readiness as a resource for Marksmanship. To further allow/enhance the burst windows it had/was meant to have.
Rapid Fire with my design would grant 1 extra charge of Explosive Shot when activated though. As a way to allow for more player oriented choices in terms of how you tackle certain aspects of an encounter.
Rapid Fire with the above design, sure it holds an increase to haste when activated(20%). But thatâs not actually the key function with the ability.
What itâs really meant to be is, hopefully, filling that exact purpose you mentioned, allowing you to make choices of your own that affect how you execute your ârotationâ. How you prioritize what enemies you attack or not.
My choice to include talents that involved interactions with your pet and how you fight with it, is mostly based on what Survival was in the past(even before WoD). While compared to BM, sure, your pet wasnât exactly your main source of damage. But you did have ways to further interact with it. As well as rely on it in combat.
Also, having that optional way(not baseline), to choose the talents involving your pet, this can really be helpful when engaging in solo content/open world stuff.
And for those that have watched the latest Dev Insight video(8.2 announcements) where they talk about stepping back a little on the âSpec Fantasy/Identityâ-theme in favor of looking towards a more Class Fantasy/Identity-oriented approach. I also believe that allowing some element of pet interaction to remain in this spec, along with some other minor elements from both MM/MSV wouldnât be the worst thing either.
Like I wrote in my own post on this forum. We have a ranger spec(MM). BM is the spec that is mostly designed to allow for pet interaction. MSV, is currently somewhere in between, though itâs overall also a very niche spec design that differs a lot from the other ones.
If every single talent this spec had would focus solely on DoTs, I very much believe that this could have a negative impact on player perception towards itâs design.
Those specific talents are very much about enhancing your extra Spender-ability. To change the pace compared to using Quick Shot. As Dire Frenzy would replace it. Why? Mostly because there are those that might want something like this.
The only active talent among those that somehow changes/affects how you play, is Dire Frenzy in itself.
The Beast Within might have elements tied to your pet, but itâs really meant to only affect you as the hunter. To affect how you play. The choices you make.
The other way to go at it would be to simply change this into: Your Auto Attacks have a chance toâŚ
Though if you ask me, we have had so many versions of this in the past. I wanted to switch it up a little. If this somehow involved Marksmanship, I would deff have changed it to only be about what you do yourself.
As for Rapid Recuperation, again, it was for the sake of a small change of theme. To add in some variety. It also happens to fit very well(my own opinion ofc.).
Not meant to be a replacement for MSV(or did I misinterpret this?).
I know BM has that turret currently, that is actually a Cobra that spits poison. Again, we all have our preferences. But I just hated that turret. If you ask me, BM has waaay to many talents that essentially are just, pick-this-and-you-get-a-new-stand-alone-ability.
Last words:
Creating a spec that is perfect for everybody, is an impossible job. We are all different and we want different things. Just how it is.
Youâre not the first to comment on the Pet-related talents. I just donât want this to be another Ranger-spec. We have that already.
And since the talents that somehow relates to your pet and involve an active mechanic, make for such a small part of your playstyle. If you ask me, this wouldnât really take away much of anything from the theme of the DoTâs.
1 Like