It needed changes beyond tuning, though. Mode of damage matters a lot and Survival had the exact wrong mode of damage for 6.2. It wouldn’t have been as much of a problem if priority add burst didn’t dominate every single fight in the instance. It’s kind of like how a lot of specs were screwed because every fight in Tomb of Sargeras needed immunities. Nevertheless the spec should have had options for burst damage for fights that needed it, but back then talents were class-wide.
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Yeah the WoD burst was a little lower. But historically survival picked up pretty quick after a couple seconds ramp time. (Not uncommon for a dot class) maybe a little more front end dmg on the shots that landed the dots. Or maybe charges on explosive shot x 2 along with LnL procs. So you can have a Max of four hitting the target back to back(dmg up front and then stacking the fire dot higher as you land the shots, like it used to)
Or even a buff to our focus dump in arcane shot might have helped too. Nothing class breaking though
No Bepples, you’re wrong. SV is the best Hunter spec there is!
Wrong again, I “main” my Hunter. Although I have every class capped. And play 5-6 of them, strictly in pvp at one time.
I know filthy casual right.
I do like playing warrior! And rogue and shaman and priest and Monk and paladin and druid and DH…
But SV is my favorite melee for sure.
Pets are a pain in the but for pvp, do I like my pets? F yes it took me four months to get Skol back in the day. Would I rather have Lonewolf for SV? F yes!
So, as usual, you’re way off base and make very little sense in your vapid excuse of an argument.
SV is awesome melee, ranged SV is not coming back, thank God.
Nah what it needed back then was melee!
Whether or not that’s true, your armory page shows you have minimal investment in your Hunter. You don’t do any raids, M+, or even rated PvP. Literally all you do is random battle grounds, and you don’t even do a particularly high amount of those. All your gear is welfare 385 stuff from battlegrounds or world quests. Yet here you are pretending your personal preference not only carries weight among long-time Hunter mains but also supercedes them.
This is the problem people have with Survival. It represents people like you who evidently have little interest in Hunters lording over the class and declaring what’s good and bad for it. For crying out loud, you’ve already established that you don’t even like the parts of the class that define what it means to be a Hunter and you are only playing SV because it feels like a Warrior spec. That’s the problem. SV might make a good Warrior spec, but it does not make a good Hunter spec. And that is made evident by the fact that almost everyone playing the class is playing one of the other two specs. Even when SV was the very best option for us in raiding no one was picking it. Meanwhile, when it was ranged, you had SV Hunters everywhere in all forms of content. You need to admit that your overwhelming melee bias is clouding your judgement because there is no neutral perspective that says SV going melee worked out well for the spec. They wouldn’t have remade it in 8.0 if it was working well.
Survival did have Lone Wolf one upon a time. When it was ranged. You cannot ask for a Hunter spec that has neither a ranged weapon nor a pet. That would cease to be a Hunter. Once again, you are not looking for a Hunter spec; you are looking for a 3rd Warrior DPS spec. “Liking pets” does not change that. Clearly you don’t like them if you want Lone Wolf.
If you want a better Arms Warrior, go to that class and ask for the changes you want to see to make it so. Isn’t your primary argument against SV that it was just a “different version of MM”? You’re literally promoting SV based on it being a different version of Arms. Pure ridiculousness. We do not need 2 Arms Warrior specs in WoW. On that note, can’t I argue that Arms is just a different version of Fury based on your standards? We sure as hell don’t need yet another Warrior spec in that case.
So instead of falling off a cliff in HFC it would just have yet another expansion under its belt where it wallowed in niche unpopularity and exclusivity the entire time. Nice. Are you forgetting the part where SV was literally the most popular spec in the entire game in Highmaul, or are you just pretending that never happened as per usual?
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If he does indeed main a SV Hunter then he carries as much weight as every long term Hunter. The supercedes part, well that is different, though he does carry more weight with SV as it is in my eyes than you do.
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Lol wall of text tldr.
Yes my opinion isn’t relavent because I’m a filthy casual.
All hail Bepples, that name lol, Patron white Knight of ye old extinct Survival Hunters!
You’re a riot buddy keep the dream alive.
Agree with Bepples, taking out pets would just strengthen the argument that melee SV does not bring anything to the already overly bloated melee classes. All you would have is a Warrior with engineering. There would also be no Hunter/Pet correlation, as one of the key factors of being a Hunter is their bond to beasts, and abilities Kill Command, Coordinated Assault, and Mastery: Spirit Bond would have to be reworked or just removed. If you want to pick a petless spec you have 11 other melee specs to play.
The theme of the hunter class for 12 years has been a ranged class with a pet. The fact that old SV was removed and we have a melee is divisive enough. Its understandable having a pet can be more of a negative than a positive these days with unreliable pet AI; however, the pet is what makes Hunters thematically different than other classes. If you remove the pet, what makes you any different than any other melee spec with some minor gimmicks?
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There is a lot of room for the specs within the Hunter class to be different while still maintaining the Hunter class fantasy. The Rogue class emulates real life examples of assassins with Sub (Ninja), Assassination (Persian Hashshashin), and… Pirate… ok so maybe not Outlaw.
Hunter could also draw inspiration from the various cultures throughout the world. There are plenty of Hunters that use spears and knives in addition to ranged weapons like bow/arrow, spears(thrown), sling shots, guns, etc…
I love SV as is, but I would really like to see a more fleshed out spec identity
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I hate current survival and the old range survival was one of my favorite specs. There I said it even if I am in the minority, hate that hunters have a melee spec at all.
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This is how melee Hunter came to be. Adam Kugler went back to the drawling board then thought about what is a Hunter’s “core fantasy?”, so they return Sv to its vanilla roots with its focus on melee combat.
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If they give it the ability to use ranged weapons instead of melee only and gave back arcan shot and a proper form of explosive shot to the spec it would be enjoyable to my taste. The plant and cast style that is mm now is not my style of play and I do not find it fun.
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This takes me back. Haven’t taken a whiff of the good-old Whim logic in ages. “Blizzard can take your spec away and then you get no more say in it because it’s no longer your spec”. Only the perennial melee Hunter self-importance can produce viewpoints such as this.
Your opinion isn’t relevant because you have minimal investment in the class. Just like how if I went to the Warrior class and started bossing them around, my opinion would be irrelevant because I have minimal investment in the Warrior class.
At this point the definition of what a Hunter is becomes so broad and diluted that it feels like there is no set class identity. This is why the class was previously strict about the ranged weapon. MMO classes do need a strict foundation and definition. There are plenty of things Rogues do that could be explained away as Hunter-like mechanics and vice versa. The reason the game keeps them separate is because blurring the divisions and stretching the class definitions makes the classes more and more meaningless.
And the problem with that is Kugler fundamentally misunderstands what SV’s “roots” were. It is extremely clear when reading his statements that they are coming from a perspective that is outside the Hunter class and has minimal investment in or knowledge of the class. SV was not rooted in “melee combat” in Vanilla: it it was rooted in versatility and adaptability. It still was that way in WoD. Melee was a necessary restriction of Hunters at the time so SV was the spec that confronted that. Once we could use ranged weapons in melee range (a good decision for the class) there was no need for that anymore.
The “core fantasy” of WoW Hunters had ALWAYS included ranged weapons as the most central and important element before Legion, so if Kugler concluded it was something other than that then he was wrong. Notice how every single argument to the contrary is based on some interpretation of Hunters outside of WoW.
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He plays the Spec, you don’t. That is why he carries more weight on the subject than you do. If you can’t understand that it’s not my fault. You should just stop with using lies about my logic.
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Found another interview with Adam, which may explain a little more to his changes,
"During Legion development, there was a large initiative to get fantasy first going forward for all the classes and that was everything from the mechanics that we have on the classes to how the spell visuals were done to how animations came out. It was heavily associated with our combat revamp initiative where we had basically Charge felt like actually a big, meaty charge rather than, “I’m just kind of running up to a guy.”
With all of those changes just came a giant boulder that was dropped in the pond of development and we fully anticipated that so much had changed that we would have to iterate continually as we go forward, and as we always have. We were always trying to get to a better and better spot. It’s very hard until we get the game into hands of millions of players to see the edges of how players want to break our game effectively and show us in good ways and bad ways what we’ve done. We learn from players just as much as we learn from ourselves."
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/world-of-warcraft-devs-on-updates-balancing-and-mi/1100-6447562/
From his interviews it looks as if he watch others playing the different specs then made changes on assumption.
That’s horrible logic. Just because kindwolf wants to enjoy using a dirty broken toilet overflowing with caustic diarrhea While other people don’t even want to be in it’s vicinity and would prefer it fixed Back to its previous state where it was purely cleaned and polished; your saying kindwolf holds more weight because he continues to use and enjoy the nasty toilet, even though it doesn’t flush properly? He’s playing in dookie water and is enjoying it. I mean look at his comments he’s full of it and you are too whom. Watch he going to prove it.
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Tldr wall of text.
Responding to Bepples is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can make all the right moves, use the best strategies.
But in the end the pigeon is just gonna knock over all the pieces and crap on the board.
Ranged SV isn’t coming back thank you Jesus!
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Do you have anything to say or are just wanting to get laughs? So far I’m waiting to see something original.
I’m sorry I figured you and kindwolf both found the clean and polished toilet to be bland and boring, so you would enjoy it to be the complete opposite from the other toilets just for the sake of being visually different if it was overflowing with colorful diarrhea.
Sorry and if it the toilet flush handle doesn’t properly work within melee range this expansion we will make sure that in the next expansion when you hit the handle the toilet will shoot diarrhea at you because hey why not it’s extremely niche and will attract more people to it.
One melee button and the rest all ranged. Dirty Melee hybrid toilet ![:grinning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/grinning.png?v=6" ":grinning:")
.
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That’s what I thought… have fun trolling.