I didn’t say the Legion version was, I said the current version is. I enjoyed Legion Survival, but it had its issues. They went back to the drawing board after the initial change and I feel like they really honed in on what they were attempting to create.
The proc has been shifted to Kill Command, which can also be used from range. Other than that, how are they not? You’re so focused on things not being
-exactly- the same that you aren’t even able to recognize the similarities.
Because a particular fight may not afford you much time in melee range (think PVP), may have a frequent add that allows for frequent resets, or you simply wish to create a playstyle that more closely resembles the ranged Survival that you’re craving.
[quote=“Ogdenir-alleria, post:75, topic:169896”]
Think that you are so use to any post about range Survival being some kind of a attack on melee
[/quote] First of all, most of them are. Most of the people who are content playing whatever they are playing are doing just that.
Second, I decided to engage with this conversation because you were quite literally trying to justify players who want ranged Survival back being blatantly toxic and lashing out at players who enjoy the change.
I enjoy the spec and I think many others would as well if they give it a chance. But more importantly, I wanted to bring two things into this conversation.
First, I want you and others to understand that while it’s fine to want ranged Survival back, being toxic toward those that enjoy current Survival is simply unacceptable. There is no argument you can make that will change that.
And second, I want these players to find something they enjoy, whether that be the new version of this spec, a different spec, a different game, or an entirely different hobby altogether. That’s it. There’s far too much enjoyment in life to be had to spend so much time being miserable and trying to force that misery on others for no other reason than an unwillingness to accept change and try something new.
I think you have missed read my conversation cause at no point have I said we need to remove melee SV, nor attacked anyone who plays it. Your grasping at straws and looking for anything to turn this into a us vs them discussion.
False equivalency. Those instances aren’t remotely as extensive. Well, Demo might be, but it’s at least still a ranged DPS and frankly I think they handled that one badly too.
You are trying to normalise the Survival change. That’s not going to work because no spec has ever lost the ability to be a ranged DPS besides Survival, let alone the sheer difference between the WoD iteration and the Legion iteration.
You act like we haven’t tried it already. I have seen Survival on test realms. And I’ve played melee specs before. I don’t like them and I would never main them. Stop with this inane, patronising tone policing. You aren’t going to stop us from posting. Ranged SV will always be an issue at the forefront of Hunter class design whether you like it or not. It shouldn’t bother you too much because you clearly aren’t even invested in Hunters enough to post from one.
I think you’re greatly understating the drastic changes to Survival in an attempt to construct a false equivalency and to normalise this sort of thing.
None of what you described comes close to what happened to Survival. Demo is the closest, and even that spec didn’t suddenly lose the ability to be a ranged DPS. Oh, and that part about the devs not wanting people to play Demo in 6.2? Go look at what they did to Survival in the very same patch; it was worse.
False equivalency again. I want you to admit that Survival was changed far more drastically and suddenly than anything else because that’s a hard fact.
Lol!? No, it doesn’t.
Firstly, Murder of Crows is a talent. It has no interaction with anything else. It’s a cool ability, but it’s not remotely the same thing as Black Arrow which was an essential part of ranged Survival, giving Lock and Load procs. Also, are you forgetting that ranged Survival also had Murder of Crows as a talent?
Secondly, Wildfire Bomb pales in comparison to Explosive Shot. Explosive Shot is used very frequently and was the signature ability of the spec. Wildfire Bomb has a relatively long cooldown and is nowhere near the means of most of Survival’s damage today (that goes to one of the most bland and generic abilities of all time: Raptor Strike) and it has little interaction with anything else without key talents.
Yeah, they really honed in and created a spec with 3 separate competing identities in the baseline toolkit and a massive over-reliance on BM’s identity. Give me a break. Survival is still a mess today, and it’s no surprise that it’s still one of the game’s least popular specs.
“The proc has been shifted to Kill Command” i.e. Wildfire Bomb is not at all like Explosive Shot. Lock and Load was the bridge between Black Arrow and Explosive Shot, and it provided 2 free casts of the most powerful and aesthetically prominent ability in your toolkit. Hopefully you can see the difference between that and the self-reset mechanic of your focus generator (although I doubt it).
It’s not that Ogdenir is focusing too much on differences, it’s that you’re drawing increasingly ridiculous and indefensible false equivalencies based on the most tenuous “similarities” if they can be called that.
Boy do I have a whole collection of maximally toxic posts from melee Survival proponents.
Again with the tone policing. This is a discussion about taking specs away from people, which is what they did. It’s not a nice or pleasant situation. The discussions are going to be heated and contentious. That’s a basic fact and a natural consequence of doing what they did to Survival.
No, you don’t. You have contempt for people who want ranged Survival so you set out to tone-police them to oblivion in a weak attempt to get them to stop posting. Spare me the inane spin doctoring. The only thing your posts are achieving is making me have even more contempt for dismissive melee Survival proponents who are clearly coming from a class other than Hunters.
You seem like someone who never grew up. Wish there was more players with the comprehrension to read, at least a few lines in a discussion, before jumping the gun and claiming something is just another bash on melee thread.
Let me restate once more, with the way raids and mythic dungeons have progressed in BfA it would be an asset to have another spec that could handle heavy multi add bosses, which I think old SV would be strongest at. Melee does not need to be removed only rang SV needs to be reintroduced some how.
Why would you take anything away? Many have offered an options of bringing back range SV through talents.
SVs past core abilities were: Explosive Shot Black Arrow Serpent Sting
Make Explosive Shot work as it used to. Make it replace Aimed Shot as a 2-charge ability(though with an instant cast time)
Make Black Arrow return and be a replacement for Rapid Fire. Same CD as it used to have. Each tick from the DoT applied should restore focus to you(in total, similar to what Rapid Fire gives you). And in addition, any target affected by Black Arrow also takes increased “Elemental Damage”, which is essentially what SV used to be about in the past. Meaning, damage caused by Explosive Shot or Serpent Sting on that target is increased.
Serpent Sting could essentially stay as it is. However, I would argue that as a talent we should get the Serpent Spread effect back we had for example in Cata. Where Multi-Shot applied a version of the SS-dot to all targets hit.
Make a dual spec let it be about what old SV use to be a master of AoE-damage, or let it be about what MM was about hard hitting single target damage.
Its not one or the other its finding a equal ground that does not loose the idenity of each spec.
You will need some core abilities. Black arrow. Explosive shot, serpent sting, LnL. Serpent spread. Cobra shot. Arcane shot. Mastery increasing elemental dmg. We would need the rapid fire cooldown(buff attack speed not the channeled shot).
Can add in glaives I guess (though I do t want hunters to be a throwing spec, rogues can have that .)
And revernt the nerfs to serpent sting that broke the spec in the first place
The next option is to have melee SV be able to switch between melee or range.
Wildfire Bomb and Serpent Sting can stay as is. SV clould be like classic Hunters and equip both a melee and range weapon, or just auto changes based on talents chosen.
Bring back Snake Trap, and Explosive Trap. Then have its Mastery based on Elemental damage, so traps and stings feel more potent.
Remove Coordinated Assault, but have the pet add bleeds or haste buffs to keep it important to over all damage.
There must be ways that MM or SV can be restructured to bring back old Survival. The last option would be to creat a 4th spec; however, that would require to balance four dps specs, and revamp MM again.
No. I’d rather have a fourth spec than see them break marksmen. Leave the current three iterations alone. Bring in a fourth spec for ranged survival. Call it ranger, and move on.
Trying to build survival inside of marks wouldn’t work at all.
I didn’t say to touch marks at all. I want the ranged survival back. I don’t want them to adjust marksmen to it.
The OG wants them to talent survival in marks. I’d rather just have a fourth spec
Creating a fourth spec would be the quicker solution, but it would just open a whole new can of worms.
There are two things players complain about as far as specs go: tuning, and gameplay. With four separate specs come more numbers to balance. We seen how poorly BM started off, which required Blizzard to come in and add buffs just to have them comparable with the other dps classes.
Then there is to bring back range SV means Blizzard would have tear out some of MM talents leaving holes that would need to be filled and requiring a revamp to MM own gameplay.
Lastly, Blizzard would need a reason to have a class that needs four dps specs. Druids only got the treatment due to Feral and Gaurdian being a dps and a tank spec smashed into one.
I give the option of just fitting old SV into MM or SV cause it would seem like a more logical way for Blizzard to bring it back.