Valid point
No, they really don’t. They are highly anecdotal. There were plenty of people saying that about Legion SV too. SV’s playerbase is very small and is, as a result, extremely closely-knit. They’ll defend the spec and deny its flaws to the ends of the earth. It also gets a lot of pity from other players and so enjoys support from there, but none of this translates to actual player activity. Its representation is pitiful in end-game content, including PVP at this point.
You can’t accurately count how many people are playing it out and about, but let’s be honest; you don’t see that many in game, do you? That line of logic, as has already been mentioned, assumes that Survival uniquely has some hidden population that never goes into any trackable end-game content. Which is a farce. Why would this affect Survival but no other spec?
As for the EU thing: that’s a useless point. Firstly, AFAIK these warcraftlogs and worldofwargraphs numbers do, in fact, count EU players. Secondly, you can just add the EU populations to the US ones for every spec. Do you expect Survival to be proportionally higher when you do that? That would require there being an unusually high number of SV Hunters on EU v.s. the US realms. Just like the last example, there is no reason to assume this is the case.
The mere fact that SV relies so heavily on BM elements (Kill Command, Coordinated Assault, Spirit Bond) indicates that BM is more fitting for melee gameplay. And that makes sense. There are two major parts of the Hunter identity: ranged weapons and pets. If you are missing one, you rely more heavily on the other. Also, of those two, ranged weapons are clearly the bigger factor. MM lacks pet interaction so it doubles down on the ranged weapons. If you lack ranged weapons you need to go all in on the pets to make up for it. If you lack both, you’re Arms Warrior 2.0, not a Hunter spec. There is no melee Hunter identity that isn’t based on pets. Just look at the one lore character that every SV Hunter uses as an excuse for full melee: Rexxar. He is literally a Beast Master.
You literally had to make an SV praise thread to fill better about the spec after this thread. The “oh I don’t care” angle doesn’t work for you anymore.
They changed their stance in the very first expansion that came out after SV went melee, i.e. BFA. They came out and said that SV was too different and unfamiliar as a Hunter spec and therefore needed a better balance of ranged and melee. That means they literally identified being fully melee as a problem for SV holding the spec back. So, actually, their stance on the issue is not set in stone.
Ranged SV didn’t rely on stealing other spec’s abilities to be complete ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Who knows why you are going on about this pet AI thing. You literally just acknowledged SV has Kill Command. You’re dependent on your pet AI as SV right now.
You are literally posting from a class that has 3 melee specs all based on one-handed weapons and stealth. Who are you to talk about there being no room for a 3rd ranged spec in the Hunter class?
SV would have minimal pet dependence and be just as ranged-capable as MM. It’s damage delivery would be different, being based in DoTs rather than burst. This is exactly the sort of distinction specs are meant for. We already have ranged specs in the game that distinguish themsleves with differences like this e.g. Affliction v.s. Destruction or Fire v.s. Arcane.
People feel that way when discussing with you, too, because you blatantly ignore facts and lie about history.
SV was the most popular Hunter spec when they decided it should go melee. Yes, it was more popular than MM. Didn’t stop them then, did it!?
4 Likes
Lol wall of text. Ranged SV isn’t coming back. Cheers to that.
2 Likes
Honestly, it would be cool if they kept the spec as it is, but added an option to play it ranged (with a bow)… Then there would be melee Surv Hunters AND ranged Surv Hunters… It would be very interesting to say the least. I don’t see why we can’t have the best of both worlds, or is that some kind of blasphemy…LOL
1 Like
KC as a builder just does not fit, I keep wanting to use it as a finisher, it been a part of BM for so long feels tacked on. If you take Alpha Predator and Blood Seeker then it has functionality; however, you could easily remove it and have Raptor Strike or Serpent Sting as a focus builder.
At 120 it flows better but leveling up it very simple rotation with gaps while I wait on CD or enough focus to use Raptor again.
Once you have Alpha Predator and Mongoose Bite the rotation becomes more active while you weave in KC while trying to reach reach 5 stacks of MB. Then if you take Wildfire Infusion it becomes a game of priority and thinking a head.
All pets share the same AI so any spec you pick you will have a dumb pet.
Then there is no actually way to know the amount of players whom play melee SV Hunters, either side could be right. We can not know the numbers on amount of players whom are just playing melee casually, only switching to mlee for WQ or pvp while maining BM or MM. Neither how many are playing but have not reach 120, so do not show up in the statistics.
The best way is to see how many have finished CoS on heroic difficulty or higher; however, that will show that it is not a popular raid spec and not its population size.
Its a great idea and would, but many have said it just a bad idea or simply only want one version of SV.
Nah KC is perfect, ranged Dd for when I get kited, or CC’d. Builds focus and can hit pretty hard.
I really don’t understand why having an ability from another spec, is such an issue for so many people.
And I’m saying in pvp, even though I love KC, the pet is problematic. So switching melee to BM would be bad, assuming you would tie more abilities to the pet, as many have stated.
With right talents it hits hard otherwise it a wet noodle, and if range is all that it good for than make the DoTs from Wildfire and SS build focus. Its was just added to give pets more flavor to the spec.
If I am not mistaken, during legion alpha/beta, testers were complaining about how focus starved surv spec is and Blizz said they might change raptor strike to active focus generator…
Even though focus wasnt really an issue midway thru legion, personally, I still don’t like and didn’t like dead downtime.
I prefer legions surv melee compare to BfA’s.
So you’re argument is that because I am posting on a rogue that my argument is invalid? Okay then you got some interesting logic.
1 Like
LOL bepples logic.
“Close-knit SV lovers that defend the spec despite its flaws”
Every spec has flaws. The people that like melee SV don’t believe all the trash you seem to need to reiterate every day as you cry, yes cry to the forums.
Still feeding my pet your tears.
Hey how’s ranged survival doing by the way?
2 Likes
actually counting dhs its 15 so 16 total
some people really like to melee also why dont we count all the caster specs too
3 for mage, 3 for priest, 3 for warlock, 1 for paladin(partially), 2 for shaman. 2 for druid, 1 for monk and we have 15 1 less then melee
I really liked legion survival too. I miss lacerate and the throwing axes. And flanking strike hit hard as hell. I like that they added kill command though
From a Dps stand point we only have,
-
Balance Druids
-
Beast Mastery
-
MarksmanshipHunters
-
Arcane
-
Fire
-
Frost
-
Shadow Priests
-
Elemental Shaman
-
Affliction
-
Destruction
-
Demonology
That is only 11 options for a pure range dps spec, and only two out of those is not a caster class.
Blizzard has only added melee specs with each expansion and be nice change to add a new range dps spec.
So, it is understandable why loosing range SV hit many hard.
2 Likes
just going through some old things (old game menu) to make sure to understand that a melee main hunter isn’t good for the hunter class as a whole and should be on the chopping block simply because of what the class was originally made to be.
(The Hunter The hunter is a unique class in World of Warcraft because it is primarily a ranged attacker. Even though other classes can learn to use ranged weapons, none of them is as proficient in their deadly use as the hunter. To support the hunter’s ranged attacks, this class has two main advantages: a loyal pet and a wide array of movement-restricting spells)
This lets me know the two ways to augment the hunter is either through focusing on one ranged (marksmen), two pets (Beast Master), and third movement restricting spells (Survival). These are the things that are supposed to Add to the hunter who is a primary ranged damage dealer every thing else is just supportive.
The main melee hunter is something that completely doesn’t make sense it’s a complete 180 from the original design where as mop’s ranged survival was the perfect example of what and where it should be. It’s easy to understand where the dislike for melee main hunters come from once you start reading the old classic menu.
8 Likes
Ok but bm isnt really a ranged spec. Its just a pet spec that has a few ranged abilties. Yes, blizzard has added purely melee classes since vanilla, which is a mistake, but hunter deserves an option to have a melee spec. The ranger archtype, which a hunter is, is more than suited for a melee role. It just shouldn’t have been survival.
But melee hunters rock! Best place survival has ever been!
I humbly disagree, The Bm hunter plays a major role because the hunters pet is key to what a hunter is and has been since it’s beginning.
The problem now is there there are thing’s like lone wolf which is actually horrible and should have never been implemented.
There’s step forwards to fix the mess the hunter class is in today design wise, but the proper first step would be back to making it a primarily ranged class.
7 Likes
wonder who’s bright idea was to make Hunters a Melee class? if you’re a Hunter would you prefer to face a lion at close range…
2 Likes
There’s a thread for survival melee promotion you could post things like that there this is a thread focused on bringing back the class to unison being primarily ranged.
2 Likes
The issue with the discription is how Blizzard has and will continue reimage what it means to be a hunter.
Original over view:
"The hunter class performs pulling, threat redirection, crowd control, and primarily ranged damage. Hunters have pets that add to their DPS and help manage aggro. They can also track, tame and train animals and beasts found in the wild. The well trained pet, on countless occasions, has saved a hunter’s life. It has been said by many, and throughout history, that hunters consider their weapons and pets to be their only true friends.
In some other games, such as Everquest , the hunter is a ranged/melee hybrid that can rely on both, when the need arises. In World of Warcraft , this is simply not the case. The survival tree offers some enhancement to melee defense, but the class’s damage mitigation is poor compared to any pure melee classes and its melee abilities are few. In fact, besides auto-attack, Raptor Strike and a few others is all a hunter has as far as melee."
Now the new overview:
" The hunter is a damage dealing class that can engage in either melee or ranged combat. Hunters who are master marksmen use a plethora of different shots to take down their prey, from venomous barbs and magical projectiles to explosive volleys and penetrating powershots, while those who focus on melee combat do so with polearms, executing deft flanking maneuvers and being particularly skilled at throwing their weapon. Hunters are also masters of survival, and their familiarity with traps and misdirection can allow them to manipulate their quarry’s attentions, leading them into deadly ambushes or camouflaging themselves so well that even the sharpest-eyed of foes cannot fix their aim upon them. True to their name, hunters are also skilled huntsmen, capable of tracking even the stealthiest of targets with incredible accuracy."
We went from being a range class that was not equiped for melee combat, to we are capable master of both.
A Hunter’s definition can be what ever Blizzard wants, all they have to do it revamp the fantasy.