I know. I pretty much given up on these threads anyways. I though, throw my support into Fenelons thread anyways, because he supports having both Void and Non-Void options, and some of the ideas that are in place in his thread are really good.
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You already have more customization options than every allied race in the game lol. You don’t need more
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but LF, Nightborne and HMT have more than the VE’s.
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Void elves really don’t have that much. And the options we got required a literal flip of the switch. it did not detract from the other races. And giving them more copy-paste material will also not still.
The reason we got the options was purely because of how simple and how fast they were to add. the other races require much, much more work. So enough of that excuse that holds no water.
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No. Wrong again, politically High Elves are Blood Elves. There is a slim, very very slim percentage of High Elves that are actually Silver Covenant who have different political views. But the shear fact of the matter is that majority of High Elves are Blood Elves.
That’s not why they’re called High Elves. High Elves or ’ Quel’Dorei translates in their language as “Children of noble birth”. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the Alliance. Nor does Blood Elves having their name, have anything to do with the Horde.
Pandaren had a whole kingdom of people, split between two high key leader figures among them. It’s significantly different on the Thalassian elves situation.
It’d be like me asking for the order of Moonguard Elves as a race named ‘Moonguard’ on the Horde since they were allied with the Nightfallen - and that they have a different culture from the Night Elves with different politics (They chose exile from Malfurion’s people and remained in Broken Isles). They’re still Night Elves, and they’re a significantly slim percentage of the mass.
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Are you kidding? You think only the silver covenant are like that? That really shows what you know. While the Silver Covenant are the purely alliance faction of high elves, there are also the ones who remain in Dalaran who did not take up with the blood elves way of life, there are those within the 7th legion militia who are not part of the silver covenant, there are also those who remain with the Argent Dawn. Which is a neutral faction, yes but still, they never picked up the banner of blood elves and solely remained independent. There are also many High Elven citizens who are not part of the army who just take up citizenship within stormwind. Many have taken up the human culture and even have had children, creating a sparse set of half-elves.
There are also the High Elves of high vale who delve deeper into the more nature related side of the elves. They do not at all follow blood elf traditions and are seen to be more alliance-leaning as the wildhammer dwarves have aided them when their lands were raided.
So let’s see… we have the highvale elves which could easily be pushed into the alliance (They basically already are) You have the Silver Covenant, you have the 7th legion militia of high elven sparse troops, you have the many High Elves who remained with humans and live within human capitals. I think that is enough to create its own identity, do you not agree?
Anyways, high elves have some key figures in their ranks as well. Alleria comes to mind for sure. Though a void elf, also a key figure of the high elves within alliance territory.
If you think about it, alliance has more windrunners than horde right now.
Look, this is all symmantics. You can talk about how few high elves there are to make up a race. But Void elves exist, and they are literally just a tiny squadron of people. Not even an army, a squadron of elite forces. And that’s a race. I can assure you there are more high elves to pull from than void elves. So blizzard already threw your argument out the window with their half baked conception of void elves.
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There are plenty of races who chose different creeds or titles, but remain outside the boundaries of factions. Argent Dawn is an example, Cenarian Circle and Earthen Ring are another. Same essence applies to High Elves. High Elves aren’t a seperate race from Blood Elves, they’re merely a different merit of title - politically only, but like I said the culture and especially the aesthetic of their people remains the same.
What I know? What I know is lore from countless sources. Here’s references:
- The Warcraft Encyclopedia: Blood Elves
- Chronicles Volume 3.
- Quests from Burning Crusade - Wrath of the Lich King
- Along with the novella Blood of the Highborne which is part of the World of Warcraft: Paragons.
That’s what I know. What you’re ultimately arguing is to have a Horde race in the Alliance, with the same aesthetics & culture but simply different political stance.
The same is with Blood Elves, there’s no indication lorewise that suggests their people among the Alliance are moreso intertwined with nature more than the other. Neither have the ‘Night Elf kinda love’ towards nature - but nonetheless.
They do though. Immensely (Especially in architecture). The only few things tradition-wise was they didn’t was the practice of maintaining their arcane addiction (Which they all shared, regardless of excersizing it or not) wasn’t prohibited amongst the Silver Covenant and the rename of their people out of honour. There’s a few other small minor details but for the most part that’s pretty much it.
Additionally to give further insight on the dubbed name ‘Blood Elves’ - There could had been a High Elf in Dalaran; who was far from the incidents of the Scourge; respected their peoples decision and renamed themself a Blood Elf at that deadset moment without ever having loyalties to the Horde, touching the Fel or returning to Quel’Thalas.
"In honor of the blood that was shed throughout this kingdom, in honor of the sacrifices of our brothers and sisters, our parents, and our children, in honor of Anasterian… as of this day we will take the name of our royal lineage! As of this day, we are sin’dorei! For Quel’Thalas!” - Kael’Thas Sunstrider
As I said they renounced the title for the other of the rename of themselves ‘Blood Elves’ out of honour to those that had fallen to Arthas & the Scourge, during the fall of the Sunwell and protection of their kingdom and people.
Best case scenario compromise -
Ideally, if I were in Blizzard’s shoes and had to execute a way to do this - I would create an ingame event that removed Void Elves of their ‘void state’ but having sided with the Alliance no longer welcome back to Silvermoon or the Horde; and thus join banner by the Silver Covenant after being trusted allies with their leaned faction.
This would be a good story to go off, because you could then create an event in Quel’Thalas that sparks a discord and not-so-much a civil-war of sorts, but a portion of disagreeances within to their direction leading more Elves leave, having the Silver Covenant offer aid & open arms to further increase their ranks.
Though I’d say this all would obviously be after the Silver Covenant or Vereesa Windrunner make a formal apology for brutally murdering them (Including the innocents) during the ‘Purge of Dalaran’.
Gameplay:
- Give them an NPC the race can speak towards, to change between the Velf racials and the new ones (Which would be the same as Blood Elf racials) and potentially give Blood Elves the same deal but justify it with some lore-mumbo-jumbo.
. - Personally I find the best way to execute it, is to remove ‘Blood Elves’ and ‘Void Elves’ and add a ‘Thalassian Elves’ in Allied races (Neutral Race selection, like Pandaren)-- Then select the faction in character creation, and explain the decisions made by your character (Whether it was from the beginning, or later on with the discord).
Then have conflicts, quests and content of strife between the two over their lands etc to build up their stories. This grand compromise above ^ is the only way I see these bloody damn High Elf threads being abolished once and for all.
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I’m getting so confused. Are Blood Elves, High Elves? If so, then Void are also because they’re the same race pretty much lol.
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The whole Thalassian elf thing is exactly what I was referring to with subraces. Being able to template a void elf or high elf is what I meant with what.
Look, I don’t see void elves losing void a way to go about this. Why would they study the void and go all in on it only to just… not do that anymore? Void elf players would have a fit. I don’t even support them but I know it would not end well.
You can only pull from the alliance thalassian elves that are around. Which is enough. Highvale, Dalaran, 7th legion, Silver Covenant. More than void elves right now. All alliance thalassians.
And my argument for alliance thalassians over horde… because they exist. And have been present in lore and gameplay very often. You don’t see alliance orcs, or horde humans in gameplay. (Sometimes lore but so niche not worth mentioning.) It’s not something that players have seen nor had time to get attached too.
Obviously, the reason there has been such a massive pull for high elves is that they have grown attached to them by seeing them within their faction, fighting side by side with them. That is where the difference lies. It’s not just a horde race going to alliance. They have been there, with alliance. There is history. Players have literally fought side by side with alliance thalassians. That is the argument and it holds firm.
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Just wanted to fix that for you.
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Whatever you want to call it. It’s a horde Thalassian elf that went under the banner of blood elf. What I asked for was alliance thalassians. I don’t even count void elves as Thalassians anymore as they have screwed up their genetic code so badly. They bleed purple blood, their child form is a voidling. Very little remains of what they were. And this is not what alliance players want.
Fixed it again for you. You speak for you, nobody else.
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After the war with Arthas - The Thalassian people lost 90% of their race - And out of the 10% that remained, 8% renamed their people to Blood Elves. Out of the other 2% a singular 1% became Silver Covenant, the others dispersed upon neutral factions.
Although it’s seen ingame, lorewise that’s not true at all. There’s a very small number of Thalassian Elves that hold loyalties to the Alliance to the point that whilst they can hold small military outposts (Like the Silver Covenant) and spread their numbers thinly across other Alliance outposts like the 7th Legion - they wouldn’t be able to hold a large scale kingdom.
The argument holds on a mangled smelly “We should cut that off.” deformed leg. It is just a Horde race going to the Alliance, rather pure and simple.
There’s been races ‘there’ with both factions a lot of times that we don’t see playable - even ones that are already on the opposing faction. Additionally both factions have history with Elves - they’re, well - Elves. Players in the Horde have played far more side by side with Thalassians than the Alliance have, with higher stakes at cost and more entangled with Thalassian lore, culture and the essence of their peoples - that’s the cold hard factual truth of lore.
That’s why I presented the ‘Best case scenario’ along with -
Because it cracks open a loop hole for the numbers, lore & culture and grasps at the closest thing to a backbone on the argument one could hope for.
No. Blood Elves are High Elves, because they chose the re-name out of political reasons to honour the fallen and those who fought & shed blood in defending their homeland. Void Elves were transformed against their will and simply became what they are.
The argument normally comes up with Void Elves in regard to Blood elves - usually as a meager attempt to reinforce their agendas like “Void Elves were named Blood Elves and they were renamed too! It’s exactly the same!” but that’s a different matter altogether.
Void Elves had the name of their group of people changed because of being altered by the Void - they were mutated / cosmically altered. The closest example to this with races, would be like how the Well of Eternity mutated the Dark Trolls into Night Elves.
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Sure. Just me. That’s why we got thalassian stuff over void elf stuff. Nice try guy.
People like you ruined a perfectly amazing concept.
Yes, there wasn’t much lore for the void elves but they could have been built on, but now they are absolutely ruined.
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But void elves can’t hold a large-scale kingdom either… So what’s the difference? Void elves debunk what you are saying, because they exist and are in smaller number than alliance thalassians. Their existence proves you do not need to be able to hold a large-scale kingdom. But rather be a fit enough fighting force. Which alliance thalassians are.
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No, because any Thalassian elf - Silver Covenant, or even Blood Elves can pilgrim to Telogrus Rift, dabble in various elements of void that alters & transforms their beings enough into Void Elves - thus further increasing their ranks. If you revisit Telogrus Rift, you can see the visitors sprawling all around there.
And yeah, they still can’t hold a Kingdom. That’s already reflected in lore & ingame already lol - Which is why they’re flocking around Stormwind. That, and they hold an extremely poor ‘culture’ - it’s essentially just Blood/High Elf Culture ripoff slammed with void whipped cream on top.
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Psh. Perfect? Void elves have always been a trash idea that was poorly implemented from the get-go long before we did anything. They were always the answer to high elves and will continue to just be that. That was the foundation of their creation. And when your foundation is to just be an answer to something then you will never develop fondly.
I feel like their culture basically resides with humans now. They live within human Kingdoms, they mate with humans. They have combined their cultures together. So, realistically, High Elves do have a Kingdom within just human Kingdoms. That fact Half-Elf breeds are a thing really makes the whole alliance Thalassian unique.
Sure, some of the elves could become void elves, but it still wouldn’t make a large force. At this point, it doesn’t even matter. They will never reach Kingdom growth status. So may as well expand on what the alliance-aligned thalassians are doing, and how their culture has diverged when living among humans. That is what we want to see now. Perhaps someday even half elves could join the mix as a race to further cement their role in the alliance.
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This isn’t quite true. The problem began with giving the Alliance not the Silver Covenant Elves but a completely new race nobody asked for. It’s only normal for the people to resist against this Hazzikostas-concept of stubbornness and ask for the things they actual want.
The Void Elves are still due for a big update, let’s see how this turns out in the future.
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The whole basis of your thread was -
Now you’re saying their aesthetic basically resides with humans.
You’re still asking for what is - in essence of the most part & majority: a Horde race, that simply plays friendly (or ‘Friendly-with-benefits’) with the Alliance.
The only argument of yours I fully support at the moment, is that the lore of Void Elves is trash.
The void intertwined with a race to be playable basically $#!%s all over every void-corrupted being in the WoW universe - including Deathwing. If they had an artifact of say ‘The light’ and slammed that into the Void Elves to bring a semblance of balance (Like the Scythe of Elune did for the Worgen) yet their people ‘Still leans over to the void’ moreso - That’d make it more redeemable. But the fact they just “Oh yeah nah mate, I switch it off & on likea torch light - sometimes it just pops off - but for the most part it’s easy peasy happy days.”
Using the defense of “Oh no, but they can do that with training with Alleria and Locus Walker” - isn’t a good excuse either.
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