althought i applaud every threads effort to enact change against this sillyness… we cant do much at this point…
they are stubborn… All we can do is wait… and hope… that it dosnt take a whole patch to #PullTheRipCord.
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I could make dinner without a recipe and hope it comes out ok, or use a recipe and be sure I get something good. Nothing mindless about it, it’s just planning for your ideal result
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If my roleplay choices now effect my overall dps.
Could my dps now please increase the harder I roleplay that char? I swear I’ll type in ye old English and transmog properly in only sparkly things to please my new Fae overloards! I shall slay all other evil covenants! (scowels…your all traitors to my Fae masters!! I shall give you all wedgie’s!)
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Min maxing is fine. If anything, I don’t see how this system will fix that so called issue. I see groups with 4 people denying invites to tol dagor because they want a rogue. That’s a very static choice and it doesn’t stop people from discriminating.
Blizzard just needs to actively balance specs.
He took over from more competent and talented people and said “all that stuff they did, I’ll do better.”
Now we see how well that has worked out.
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Are you going to roll a tank because I’m stuck in PvP?
Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy and meaningful inside that you told me to make a bad decision, thinking I’m stupid enough to take advice from some random anonymous stranger in the forums?
That is true.
I know some people haven’t changed their talents for 2 expansions now. No improvement to dead talents and no more talent tiers. It feels like they have given up on core progression and focusing all in on borrowed power. I think that is a mighty big gamble IMVHO with how BFA turned out. 
Why should I be required to become a theorycrafter and test all these things myself when the work has already been done? If you love multidimensional spreadsheets, go for it. But telling me I’m playing the game wrong for not spending endless hours creating my own metas is ridiculous. Or do you just want me to be really, really bad?
Why is it you think that casuals are totally brainless and can’t think for themselves?
Huh, (I don’t think I got your jest). I was advocating for RP and player power to no longer be linked with one another.
I wanted each covenant to get all four class skills under them. And to let the player choose the skill they like with the covenant they like.
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I’m as casual as they come, take a look at my armory lol.
Nobody should have to theorycraft if they don’t want, but there is such a thing as diminishing returns, which means that people not doing top end cutting edge content gain practically no benefit from copying cutting edge players down to a tee. It’s like someone who just wants to jog every morning without feeling winded optimizing for a cross-country marathon — they’re free to do so, but there’s little benefit to it and they may even be hurting themselves since they’re optimizing for the wrong thing.
So you’re saying I should stop doing what works, because if I look up what stats I should have on my gear and what talents I should have that’s “mindlessly copying”.
Are you recommending that I become a theorycrafter and spend 100 hours determining for myself, or commit myself the the noble goal of being a bad player and just decide what to equip by ilvl only?
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If it truly works well for you, that’s great, keep doing your thing. As I said before, no you don’t need to theorycraft if you don’t want to.
Where “mindless” comes from is all the players just snapping up whatever the meta is among cutting edge players without digging into why the top end players made those choices, which is important because the gameplay at that level is a totally different ballgame. It’s entirely possible that at lower levels, there are other options that actually work better, but few bother to entertain such an idea. It’s just icy veins → done.
Are they limiting it though?
As far as i’m concerned I’m still getting more choices in Shadowlands.
No, actually choosing gear by ilvl doesn’t work for me. But you already told me that players who look up guides online are mindless drones.
You really can’t have it both ways. I see your agenda as to intentionally hurt casuals by rushing them to make bad decisions based on incomplete information, information that is readily available online but nowhere in the game, and if they look up what they should do they’re “mindlessly copying”.
Making the wrong decision based on incomplete information is going to hurt casuals. Why do you want to hurt casuals?
Why would I hurt myself? I’m super casual. This is my main, and has been for 15 years. I barely touched M+ this xpac and haven’t done any raids at all outside of LFR Uldir.
I said to keep doing what works for you, not to equip higher ilvl. If you’ve evaluated your options and determined that following the meta is what’s actually best for you, cool. A lot of players don’t even put that much consideration into it. It’s a consideration that should be made, because what’s best and “right” at the top end may not be in other parts of the game. There often is no universal “right” way to play, and this often gets ignored.
As far as game design goes, my preference is actually for the game to be de-obfuscated to the point that external third party guides add almost no value, making it possible to make good decisions without even leaving the game. I do not believe this opinion is popular though, so I’m not hopeful that such a thing will ever actually happen.
This is the most reasonable argument so far. I still do not agree with not being the most optimal at what I want to do; because the class and spec balance between each other is not within 2% or gets balanced fairly like FFXIV’s dev team does for PvE.
Blizzard has a terrible balance track record. Not just in WoW but in ALL of their other games too. So, I’m not willing to see nor allow Blizzard to enable this type of restriction before balancing of specs and classes are within 2% of each other. Which will not happen; because they like to reinvent the wheel for every class every expansion.
So, like Sabetha says, their ambition will not work because the class system needs to be overhauled entirely. Blizzard won’t do that because they redesign classes every expansion which is counter intuitive to what they want the game to be.
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Yeah no. In the vast majority of case, there IS a “right” way to play, if your goal is to do as much damage in a given fight. If this isnt your goal, good for you, go ahead. But dont make claims like this.
Saying that it aint so, is too often just an excuse. The difference between the “right” and the “wrong” choice is usually so big, that you need to be an extremly bad player to turn this around. And even then, why would you think this extremly bad player is somehow much more capable to play the “wrong” setup to a higher result, than he would be with the “right” setup? Why, in all of you folks examples are the bad players somehow super good in piloting some random “wrong” specc, but fail at playing the “right” spec? Cant it be the other way around, too?
Popular is a difficult term. I believe many would agree with this in theory, but if you put this into reality, how would this look? The game would have to become extremly dumbed down. The consequences of this would be what deters many people.
They just want to make your choices meaningful. The more choices they take away, the more meaningful the ones remaining will be. That’s just basic science. 
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Depends on execution IMO. They could abandon gear/stats as a vector for making the game more interesting, stripping them of most of their complexity, and then instead focus on actual combat — interplay between talents/abilities, class/spec synergy, bossfights, more intelligent world mobs, etc. That I think would be a net win for most players.
are you trying to say ion is the wow version of carl saggan?
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