Honestly, they should just disable Covenant perks in M+.
It’s a competitive mode. If you wanna do that gimmicky crap, M0/Heroic is more than fine for it.
m0 doesn’t need buffs, people will soloing them in a month
Yeah, but imagine doing a +20 Shrine, wiping on the last boss and not having a Graveyard because you don’t have a Kul Tiran or Priest in the group.
That’s what MoTS will be like at higher keys.
Ofc idea of dungeon buffs for certain covenants sucks a lot. But it would be pointless to keep it in potato-difficulty modes. Either keep it everywhere or remove it entirely
Well back in Vanilla there was really only one build for every class.
Around Wrath there were multiple classes who had 4 or 5 different builds, or DKs who had 9 or more.
So its not my opinion it is factually how this game has been since its inception.
There’s no other way to do it. You need to not allow min-maxing/meta at all in order to stop it because players have showed that if you give them an inch, they’ll take a mile. Since everything you try will be gamed, min-maxed and disseminated into “best” and “everything else” the only solution is to find some way to not allow it at all so the rot is never allowed to take hold.
Personally, Covenants are the thing I’m looking forward to THE LEAST in SL. I can see this being a huge mess that just gets changed multiple times during the expansion. That’s going to be another “lather, rinse, repeat” cycle of Bliz implementing something major that doesn’t work and just needs changing later on.
Also, I hate that they don’t know how to balance anything anymore and create these pigeon-holed mechanics where you can be good at A but it’s useless for B.
The actives from the Legion weapons were great. Covenants will be awful.
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And you can still swap covenants.
And if I want to swap back to one I’ve swapped from?
If everything is the same, why have more than one thing?
You can do that as well just TBD on how big hurdle is.
It’s one ability. All the abilities increase damage. Some are better situationally than others, but they all make you better. It’s one ability. In the thousand M+ pugs I’ve run in BFA, I’ve never once been asked what my talents/azerite abilities/essences/or corruptions are. Not once. All this verses one ability? Raider io score and ilevel will be the metric by which players are judged. As always.
Certainly some groups will form and need a specific covenant for a specific dungeon to obtain a specific buff. They won’t care if that class is “sub-optimal” for that covenant. They just want the buff.
Have fun with your choice of tank, healer, or DPS class with [avoid damage] [heal damage] [deal damage] buttons.
The real solution is for people to play with like minded people. Unless the anti-min/max crowd is so small that that’s impossible, in which case it wouldn’t make sense to design the game around them.
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Sounds like the abilities are pretty low impact, or for a short time. If so, it can very well be smarter to bring someone optimal for the entire run vs getting a small bonus.
This decision is based on covenant, and people will definitely look for specific class/spec/covenant combos.
Carefull what you say OP, this is Blizzard. They will make you guys play as long as possible in order to reach your BIS -groaning and whining all the way.
All they see is data 
I think it only limits the choices for people if they choose to let it limit them. If people don’t like the min / max mentality, they can play with other like minded players that feel the same way. Then they don’t have to worry about the min / max community in any way.
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It’s not even min/maxing. A lot of talents are just downright better than the rest in their tier.
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Certainly some will, and that’s their right to do so. Yet, you didn’t address the fact that it’s one ability. My talents/azerite/essences/corruptions make up a huge chunk of my damage. I’ve never been asked what they are. Yet somehow one ability, that may be slightly and situationally sub optimal will be different?
Exactly! if you are a min-maxer you are always gonna limit yourself to play one way to get he best possible result.
If you don’t obsess over min-maxing, thats when you do not give a dam and have a choice.
So Blizzard is pretty much saying we do not design content around min -maxers.
I assume their whole thought process is that introducing more rigid and strict choices will cause people to discriminate less against said choice, because they know it’s difficult to change that aspect of your character.
I don’t really agree with their sentiment on that because I’ve been declined from groups all expansion simply due to the class I played (spriest). I think in a vacuum a more rigid choice would ideally make people more forgiving of that choice, and take someone who is using a less than ideal set up. However, I think when we see how people eventually interact with the system I don’t believe this will be the case. Especially with the new dungeon bonuses we just found out about.
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