Water Strider Discussion

[Nearo-emerald-dream (Nearo)]

And no one that are for keeping the water-strider wants to take that away from you. We only want the strider to retain it’s ability and to make it exempt from use of the equipment. Just as they are doing with the Golem.

Surely you can support this as it would have zero impact on your ability to ride a charger off into the ocean sunset should you choose to do so.

Honestly what I’d prefer is that each mount has it’s own set of equipment slots - including the golem. This way people can outfit the various mounts they prefer aesthetically rather than making their decisions on which one provides the greatest mechanical advantage under a variety of different circumstances.

Doing this would also create a market for Player professions which have been gutted into near-uselessness, so it’d be a positive for the economy as well.

[Shamageddon-velen (Shamageddon)]

I know very well what you are saying, actually.You want to keep the striders OP ability while simultaneously using a different piece of mount equipment on your other mounts, thus having direct access to both water walking and another ability- Continuing to put newcomers/returning players who haven’t rep grinded for the Strider at a disadvantage.

You do know in order to purchase the boots, you have to do the rep grind. So what difference does it make? Grind for the boots or the bug, it’s the same damn thing.

[Warpstone-norgannon (Warpstone)]

Blacksmiths can also make them, I hope they sell for thousands of gold. I know the ones i make will be posted for quite a bit. I farmed the rep in MoP so I can buy mine for 40g. 4000g should be a good number to start them at on the AH.

[Zaela-runetotem (Zaela)]

Wait, people are still complaining about this? I thought this thread would have died weeks ago…

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

I farmed the rep in MoP so I can buy mine for 40g. 4000g should be a good number to start them at on the AH.

So can we buy the ones from Faction and just re-sell them on the AH?
Thats not game breaking

Wait, people are still complaining about this? I thought this thread would have died weeks ago…

You, much like the devs, underestimate how mad this change is making players. Ignore it at your own peril

[Zaela-runetotem (Zaela)]

I will, cause I’m a DK and it doesn’t effect me.

[Warpstone-norgannon (Warpstone)]

So can we buy the ones from Faction and just re-sell them on the AH?
Thats not game breaking

I don’t think we can resell them, but not sure. I just know I will sell the ones i make got quite a lot, If the people that don’t have this mount want this change so badly, I will make them pay for all my equipment changes, and I hope others will also.

[Parìyah-emerald-dream]

Do you really expect a DK to WALK across masses of water and call it OP if there are water walking mounts blowing passed them?

DK’s can use mounts on water when they have Path of Frost active. Why would they need to walk?

You want to keep the striders OP ability while simultaneously using a different piece of mount equipment on your other mounts, thus having direct access to both water walking and another ability- Continuing to put newcomers/returning players who haven’t rep grinded for the Strider at a disadvantage.

No. I want the water strider to continue walking on water as it always has. If I use a different piece of mount equipment for my other mounts, my other mounts will not benefit from both water walking and another ability. They would just benefit from the ability that is on the equipment I’m using. They’re doing it for the Sky Golem, they can do it for the water strider.

[Merridae-aerie-peak (Merridae)]

but it’s not difficult to surmise that the fact that Blizzard initially went with a water strider as the model for the water-walking mount is because they were drawing a parallel to the physical science behind how water striders in the real world walk on water.

Real life “water striders” aka any of the family of insects known as Gerridae in particular Aquarius remigis (which the artwork for the water strider is no doubt drawn from) have no parallel to the fantasy version in this game as although the Azure and Crimson water striders appear to walk on water they “splash” indicating that it is speed running across the water that keeps them on the surface rather than the nominal weight transfer ability of the pleuston animals which is how Aquarius Remigis stays dry. Gerridae family insects typically walk on the surface because their overall average downward pressure is not enough to break the air-water interface.

By themselves the Azure Water Strider’s overall Body Size Mass Index Equivalent would be enough to exert a downward pressure sufficient enough even given their unburdened size to penetrate the air-water interface (surface tension) which at 21.5 degrees C is 72.86 +/- 0.05 mN*m^-1 (72.81 - 72.91 miliNewtons per meter).

We know this because the average Gerridae male is about 1.2 cm long (not including the legs) and weighs about 10 dyne (thats 0.010197162129779282 grams)

If we assume a rider and the mount itself has a mass of 42.0 kilograms (i’m being facetious here most humans weight somewhere around 80kg (roughly double that of the value I am using for mount and rider and gear combined)) on Azeroth (on Azeroth Physical laws especially constants like G and g) tend to not work in a trustworthy manner). You would need to account for that much weight by distributing it over an area of 1.0 cm * (41,187,930 dyne/10) = a bug roughly 411 meters long. The bug would be half of the size of a Galaxy class star ship from Star Trek and the weight would be no more than that of a feather comparatively. If magic ISN’T involved here you are going to have an awfully hard time explaining with science (or even drawing a decent parallel to science) the existence of the water striders. Yet they exist within context of the game AND they walk on water. Your Kultiran Charger has more issues yet so we assume that the water walking “equipment” must have been derived from water walking potions, which were themselves made with certain herbs and animal parts/fluids. And it is these which are magical in nature and therefore the Water Strider Also is magical.

Everything in the game requires a degree of the suspension of disbelief, but there are certain elements in the game design that are distinctly meant to be thematically magical in nature vs. thematically physical in nature. Even though there’s no way a bird the size of a gryphon could carry a rider, we are not meant to believe that Gryphons can carry a rider due to magic, but rather due to their ability to sustain flight due to lift/drag from flapping their wings. Of course it’d be impossible for a bird that size to sustain flight with an armored rider, but their flight is not thematically magical in nature. In the same way, a Water Strider’s ability to walk on water is not meant to be thematically due to magic - but rather a physical ability. Sometimes those themes jump the shark and it becomes more and more difficult to achieve that suspension of disbelief. That threshold may be different for you than it is for others - and that’s fine. To me, it’s easier to believe that Kul Tiran charger would be able to walk on water due to some magical blessing on their horse shoes or whatever than to believe that an animal the size of a water strider has the innnate ability to walk on water due to it’s physiology, and there is nothing in the game that would indicate that water striders are magical in nature so that’s just your headcannon speaking.

Now to the larger issue now that your excuse for RP’ing no longer exists having been thoroughly debunked.

You flatter yourself.

You are on a RP Realm you say? And you WPVP in that context? Thats absolutely fine. Those on that realm that have a Water Strider Also are RP’ing that they can stride across the water on their magical fantasy mounts? What makes them different from you? That’s right. Nothing. Absolutely zero. They are pretending (Role Playing) that they have a mount that can stride across bodies of water just as you are pretending (Role Playing) that YOU are a brave medieval fantasy version of a Paladin (Knights Templar/Chevalier) who can through the use of magical potions or equipment walk on water. If you are not willing to allow them (in your mind) to access the magical Water Strider then you must be willing to no longer pretend to be the mighty paladin of yore using magical potions and equipment to walk on water.

Hey if people want to headcannon and RP that their water striders are magical in nature that’s fine with me - my initial statement was an answer to another individual who asked why I found it more immersive to use my Kul Tiran charger with water walking potions versus using a water strider. You do you, boo - I’ll do me.

So it ISN’T “immersion” breaking for you (as an objective vantage point rather than from a subjective vantage point) when someone else hops on their Water Strider to avoid you its just good strategy on their part and laziness on your part.
Which brings us full circle back to a behavior that is quite like that of any of the hundreds of griefers I have met in my time on Azeroth.

It’s actually a lot more work to keep up a stock of water walking potions on all my alts than it is to get a water stirder - but if you want to prescribe that to laziness… OK? People can use whatever they want - how you conflate my refusal to use a water strider and to instead use water walking potions along with my Kul Tiran charger as somehow equivalent to griefing behavior is a whole new level of mental gymnastics that I look forward to reading on the next 10 paragraph of nonsensical logical fallacies that you’ll undoubtedly vomit my way.

They cannot be troubled to go out of their way for the sake of the fantasy to earn their champion kills in honorable combat. Rather, they like the little boy who pulls the wings off of flies, finds the easiest kill that gives them whatever it is they desire from that kill (be it honor or just satisfaction of knowing you were able to camp someone without them having a viable means of escape) to be the most pleasurable.

That is the thing with most of the RP WPVP’ers out there. At least most of the bad ones. They only use the RP argument when it becomes convenient for them in the debate arena. Feeling free to cast RP under the bus when it suits them to do so.

/endrant

Spoken like someone who doesn’t know anything about RP-PvP. You also don’t know anything about me or how I RP and how I PvP - and that’s OK you don’t need to - but you sure are quick to call me a griefer simply because I disagree with you on the mount equipment changes when you don’t even know me. That kind of blinders-on willful ignorance kinda disqualifies you from any serious debate with me since you clearly have a bias against RP-PvP. I honestly can’t continue this discussion with you on any serious capacity if you are going to make the assumption that I’m coming from the position of being a griefer due to how I RP.

Because you ARE a griefer your opinion and your objections here carries little if any water. We know you for what you are and therefore anything further you have to say on the subject will simply be ignored by those who do not share your passion for wurld pee vee pee.

At the end of the day retconning the ability of an item in game that required the expenditure of time (time is money, friend) to obtain because…reasons, is simply unethical on the part of the developers and speaks loudly to us that those developers (who’s very job it is to be imaginative) do not have or cannot make use of the intelligence and imagination and effort necessary to build a great game.

If you buy a workshop full of great and wonderful tools, saws, wrenches milling machines, acid etching pits, metal bending jigs, autohammers, presses, welders, anvils, grinders, and forges and you buy them from a master metalsmith and the only thing you know how to use in that shop is the cutoff saw and you are unwilling to learn the other tools, then you probably are not going to produce a work of metalsmithing beauty and renown.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

They’re doing it for the Sky Golem, they can do it for the water strider.

I know I have said this before but its more than the Sky Golem they are leaving alone.
2 person mounts
Transmog mounts
vendor mounts
AH mounts
underwater mounts.

None of those are changing either.

Only the water strider. Despite 2 classes having that same ability. Despite 1 profession having the same ability

[Parìyah-emerald-dream]

I don’t get how people can’t understand this. One day, someone at Blizz said, “Let’s create a mount that walks on water. We will make it a rep reward for getting Exalted with Nat Pagle. To get Exalted, you just have to do the dailies every day.” Fast forward to people doing said dailies and earning the mount. Now people are using the water strider to walk on water and all of a sudden people are calling it “OP”. So using a mount that was created to do something specific, that you earned through jumping through the hoops that were required, is now being seen as “OP” and needs to be nerfed? How many people would have put in the time and effort if they knew down the line the ability of the mount they worked for was being taken away? And how can you not see that if they can do this to water walking, flying won’t be far behind. Pathfinder is the equivalent of the dailies required to gain rep for the water strider. Suddenly, you finish Pathfinder but you can’t use any of your flying mounts unless you put a piece of flying equipment on them. You’re good with that?

[Lillyann-llane (Lillyann)]

And before people mention timewalking that wasnt an option then. It is now yes. So you should have done it last week if you didn’t have one.

[Warpstone-norgannon (Warpstone)]

Suddenly, you finish Pathfinder but you can’t use any of your flying mounts unless you put a piece of flying equipment on them.

I believe mount equipment will also be locked behind pathfinder in the next expansion. Will have to wait to 9.1 or 9.1.5 to use mount mount equipment and 9.2 or 9.3 to fly. They have to get that time played up, that’s all they seem to care about ant more. And yes there will be mount equipment for flying, They have to make us change all the time so it looks like we like the system.

[Dhanara-moon-guard (Dhanara)]

They’re doing it for the Sky Golem, they can do it for the water strider.

I know I have said this before but its more than the Sky Golem they are leaving alone.
2 person mounts
Transmog mounts
vendor mounts
AH mounts
underwater mounts.

None of those are changing either.

Only the water strider. Despite 2 classes having that same ability. Despite 1 profession having the same ability

I don’t get how people can’t understand this. One day, someone at Blizz said, “Let’s create a mount that walks on water. We will make it a rep reward for getting Exalted with Nat Pagle. To get Exalted, you just have to do the dailies every day.” Fast forward to people doing said dailies and earning the mount. Now people are using the water strider to walk on water and all of a sudden people are calling it “OP”. So using a mount that was created to do something specific, that you earned through jumping through the hoops that were required, is now being seen as “OP” and needs to be nerfed? How many people would have put in the time and effort if they knew down the line the ability of the mount they worked for was being taken away? And how can you not see that if they can do this to water walking, flying won’t be far behind. Pathfinder is the equivalent of the dailies required to gain rep for the water strider. Suddenly, you finish Pathfinder but you can’t use any of your flying mounts unless you put a piece of flying equipment on them. You’re good with that?

If anyone from Blizzard reads anything in this thread, I hope they read these two posts, and let them sink in. Long shot, I know, but it’s possible.

[Dhanara-moon-guard (Dhanara)]

And furthermore, even if I do stay subbed to this game, I will NEVER work for any rep rewards again, because Blizzard has shown how cavalier they can be with taking those rewards away down the road. Disgraceful.

[Pyromor-shandris (Pyromor)]

The reason they say this is it is OP for pvper,using the mount if you get blown off a hill by a shaman you will survive the fell and not die.Also,it’s a means of getting away they don’t like .But as of late they changed it where if they did fell even in pve you’ll die on impact.

[Margirita-perenolde (Margirita)]

Your right that’s not cool.

But at this point I actually like these people being on this thread. It’s all about numbers. Blizzard is looking at the majority of posts complaining about this change they tend to ignore posts like his. But the posts do bump up our numbers and they do keep this thread active. And he does give lots of opportunity for people to explain their points of view in depth.

He may think he just trolling for his own amusement. But he is unknowingly working for us. He has become our un-witting pawn. Muahahahahahahahahahhhahahahaahah!

[Raiyyn-whisperwind (Raiyyn)]

So you are admitting that you are using a mount that is ‘ugly, awkward and cumbersome’ solely because of its ability but here you are opposing Blizzards idea of expanding abilities across other mounts… makes sense.

I don’t oppose their expanding the abilities, I oppose their removing the innate abilities of certain mounts because, even ugly as they may be (I don’t actually find the water bug to be particularly ugly, I like it), they are unique in a way no other mount is.

If they want to make equipment, bring it on. But leave the mounts that have innate abilities alone. Do the same thing with the Strider that they are doing with the Golem…make the equipment not effect them while leaving their innate ability alone.

The running across the ‘lay of the land’ saves people a lot of time and hassle when doing numerous things- that is the benefit. You can’t down play this, because if it really wasn’t a big deal then there wouldn’t be this whole big stink about it.

It’s not something that can’t be done by Death Knights, Shaman, or any other class simply by using an existing potion (Elixir of Water Walking)…all of which have been around significantly longer than the mount.

There wasn’t a “big stink” about it until Blizz decided to change things.

The “stink” has much less to do with the innate ability of the strider mounts and much more to do with the fact that they were earned and are now being changed for no reason and because other specialized mounts (the golems in particular) aren’t being “broken” because of this system.

The “stink” is because they are, yet again, taking away something that we’ve had for years for no reason.

“It’s a powerful mount” is a lame, at best, excuse for removing something that has been around for so long. Are you going to tell us now that 6 years ago it wasn’t powerful? It is what it is. Blizz created it knowing what it was. They wanted to break it before and the backlash made them step back from that. So now they are doing what amounts to another “Pathfinder” (which many are still very upset about) in that they couldn’t get what they wanted initially so now they are taking something players want just because they can and nothing we say will make any difference.

Well… Honestly, I didn’t really understand the Pathfinder hate before…I don’t have any real issue with it. But I kind of do understand it now because I see what those players have been saying all this time in the breaking of a mount I really enjoy, and went out of my way to earn…

I don’t agree with you. You can yell at me all you like, I will never agree with you. I want my strider to stay the way it is today. I do not want to have to purchase something I earned long ago for even 1 copper. Period. That’s it. That’s all.

Do you really expect a DK to WALK across masses of water and call it OP if there are water walking mounts blowing passed them?

You’re just being obtuse with this comment. “Water Walking” is the ability the mount has. It’s just what it’s called. “WW”, “Water Walking”…but you knew that already.

DKs can “WW” across any water they like…while mounted on any mount of their choice…with Path of Frost active. Shaman have an ability called “Water Walking” that allows them to do the same thing…while mounted.

Druids are not getting water walking on any of their forms- so their travel form will be an ‘auto-mount’- but its not as fast as mounts and they will never be able to walk on water.

No one said they were. If you actually read the post you’re replying to you’d know that I was talking about druids in relation to the Golem mounts…Druids can herb in travel form, Shaman can herb in Ghost Wolf form.

[Pattyz-area-52]

Personal attacks are not cool.

Really? I didn’t see you complain when your buddies attacked me for having an opinion. You jumped right in. Now you want to play the victim? Nice try, but grow up.

“It’s a powerful mount” is a lame, at best, excuse for removing something that has been around for so long. Are you going to tell us now that 6 years ago it wasn’t powerful? It is what it is. Blizz created it knowing what it was.

This is a lame excuse to not change something. So what if it has been around for 6 years? That doesn’t make it a good idea.

I don’t know why you are comparing classes and specs to mounts. You can’t compare the two because there are only 12 classes and with each you get unique abilities. Each class may have a different niche that another class may or may not have, but you get something else in return with a different class/spec. Druids may be able to shape shift, but they can’t WW like DK’s. DK’s can’t shift into a ghost wolf. Paladin’s can’t stealth but they can bubble etc. There is a trade off of unique skills/abilities with classes/specs.

This is completely different than 700 mounts doing the same exact thing, and then you have 1 mount such as the strider that is the only mount available which can water walk. See the difference?

[Raiyyn-whisperwind (Raiyyn)]

We are comparing mounts, not specs to mounts so this ‘clever’ little response of yours makes absolutely no sense and doesn’t contribute in any way, shape or form

Actually his comment does contribute.

If the mount is too OP to keep as is, the abilities of some classes are also too OP to keep as is which will ultimately result in fewer “flavor abilities” on classes and more pruning for the sake of pruning.

If we don’t state our objections to these kinds of changes, where do they stop? When has it gone too far? When will we lose every special ability in the game regardless of what, or who, it’s taken from?

Expanding the discussion doesn’t make the discussion irrelevant.