Water Strider Discussion

[Truebow-suramar (Truebow)]

I would prefer they just didn’t implement this feature at all , and leave all mounts as they are ,

[Truebow-suramar (Truebow)]

The best solution would have been to leave the water strider ALONE. Just like the Golem. But no, Ion needs to throw a hissy fit. So here’s my solution, unsub. Mine ran out and I’m not missing it.
Also, stop trying to come with a compromise, the water walking in the next patch is not like it is now. Fall will break water walking. It’s an abomination. Nothing else.

Its looking like many have unsubed , reports are they lost 8.5% of there player base in the last few months

[Pattyz-area-52]

The amount of people a water strider benefits out-weights the amount of people a herb specific mount benefits. Everyone can “wait on dungeons”, “WQ”, “level and pet battle”. Only Herbalists benefit from the HERBALIST MOUNT. So your argument is irrelevant once again.

[Margirita-perenolde (Margirita)]

Hmmm 5000 plus posts.

None of us are really saying mount equipment is bad. Seems like a cool idea that could work nicely.

But why in the world do you have to sacrifice the water bugs current abilities to make your idea work. AND then you give a decent loophole to a different mount for gathering herbs? You could just give the water strider the same loophole!

Why are you cutting off the feet of my water strider? It’s junk like this that gives all your customers trust issues. It’s like telling your kids don’t worry we will comeback to it and then wondering why they flip out when you never get back to it. You want us to trust you, that’s great, then earn that trust by not pulling random takesie backsies.

And by the way it’s not the first time you have done random taksie backsies and we highly doubt it will be the last. Thus we have trust issues and if you want us to trust you again you have to NEVER do that junk again. Not just quit it for a few months and then relapse over and over.

[Truthspeaker-alleria (Truthspeaker)]

Only Herbalists benefit from the HERBALIST MOUNT. So your argument is irrelevant once again.

And people who don’t want to get dismounted by mobs as they travel from quest to quest. The Sky Golem has more than one special ability. I think it’s ugly and awkward and cumbersome, but I’ve resorted to using it on non-gatherers when I just want to get where I’m going with no hassle.

Whose argument is irrelevant again?

I’m so cranky over Blizzard’s “Take stuff away” design decisions that I really should probably just quit entirely and come back when I’m less burned out, because there’s no way the two new zones are going to impress me when my attitude is this sour.

I unsubbed yesterday for this very reason. First time I haven’t had an active sub since I started playing back in Dec 2010. I can’t say I’m happy about it; I’m pretty sad about it, actually, but I think it’s the right decision for me for now.

[Illoramoan-grizzly-hills]

Now that I can afford to keep an active subscription, for collectings and alts, Blizzard is negating one of my collections right out of my mount tab, and has made travel for all my alts prohibitively difficult. Nice of Blizzard to help me kick the addiction to the game, but not really in their best interest. I finally got City of Heroes to work for me tonight.

[Akaiya-moon-guard]

I finally got City of Heroes to work for me tonight.

I loved City of Heroes. As I understand, it’s a private server, and not a reboot, correct?

Since Blizzard seems so intent on pruning the game, taking away things we’ve earned, and making the game more frustrating to play, I think it’s time to look elsewhere for my MMO fun.

[Raiyyn-whisperwind (Raiyyn)]

The amount of people a water strider benefits out-weights the amount of people a herb specific mount benefits. Everyone can “wait on dungeons”, “WQ”, “level and pet battle”. Only Herbalists benefit from the HERBALIST MOUNT. So your argument is irrelevant once again.

The “herbalist mount” is just another mount for anyone who wants it. It has a benefit of allowing herb farming while mounted, which is pretty powerful considering the amount of gold one can make from herbs alone.

It’s unique. It’s a collectible.

Same as the water mount.

Some classes can do the same thing (Druids in any travel form, Shaman in Ghost Wolf form). There is no potion or elixir that allows the same functionality.

Oh… It also has the added benefit of acting as a “no daze” mount for pretty much everyone in the game. So who does it “only benefit” again?

Water Walking is just running across the “lay of the land”. It has no benefit that can’t be obtained by anyone in some other way… Death Knights and Shaman have the same functionality, and can give it to other players. There is an elixir that allows the same functionality also.

Both mounts are pretty ugly, but unique enough for some to actually like them with or without the special functions.

So if you’re okay with this change, I suppose you’re also okay with removing these “flavor” benefits of some classes and removing the elixir. I mean, they are way more powerful than either mount.

[Orylie-kul-tiras (Orylie)]

I’m considering firing up my ESO sub and going back to that. I don’t like the Najzatar area at all, Mechagon is totally boring and this Water Strider mess just smells of “oh hey let’s make it so it’s more difficult for them in future xpacs to navigate increasing time played”. I have been around since 2004. I think I may be done here. I will wait and see how this rolls out live then make a decision. I can tell you this much. I won’t be pre ordering the next xpac whatsoever.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

I loved City of Heroes. As I understand, it’s a private server, and not a reboot, correct?

I saw it on youtube and wasnt sure it was real. I think I may have to try it out this weekend

[Pattyz-area-52]

And people who don’t want to get dismounted by mobs as they travel from quest to quest. The Sky Golem has more than one special ability. I think it’s ugly and awkward and cumbersome, but I’ve resorted to using it on non-gatherers when I just want to get where I’m going with no hassle.

Whose argument is irrelevant again?

So you are admitting that you are using a mount that is ‘ugly, awkward and cumbersome’ solely because of its ability but here you are opposing Blizzards idea of expanding abilities across other mounts… makes sense.

Water Walking is just running across the “lay of the land”. It has no benefit that can’t be obtained by anyone in some other way… Death Knights and Shaman have the same functionality, and can give it to other players. There is an elixir that allows the same functionality also.

The running across the ‘lay of the land’ saves people a lot of time and hassle when doing numerous things- that is the benefit. You can’t down play this, because if it really wasn’t a big deal then there wouldn’t be this whole big stink about it. And people wouldn’t be using the mount while admitting its ugly and their tired of looking at it. The fact is- its a very powerful mount. And yes, some classes/specs have their niche such as water walking, druids and their forms, and the shaman ghost wolf but the power of it all is shrunk when you have a mount that can do it much faster. Do you really expect a DK to WALK across masses of water and call it OP if there are water walking mounts blowing passed them? Give me a break. Druids are not getting water walking on any of their forms- so their travel form will be an ‘auto-mount’- but its not as fast as mounts and they will never be able to walk on water. Not to mention the invisible border lines which auto-cancel water form randomly.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

So you are admitting that you are using a mount that is ‘ugly, awkward and cumbersome’ solely because of its ability but here you are opposing Blizzards idea of expanding abilities across other mounts… makes sense.

LOL you really are not listening to what people are saying are you?

NOT ONE PERSON has said “dont implement mount equipment.”

They have said, “give mount equipment to everyone else, just dont change my strider!”

[Orylie-kul-tiras (Orylie)]

So you are admitting that you are using a mount that is ‘ugly, awkward and cumbersome’ solely because of its ability but here you are opposing Blizzards idea of expanding abilities across other mounts… makes sense.

LOL you really are not listening to what people are saying are you?

NOT ONE PERSON has said “dont implement mount equipment.”

They have said, “give mount equipment to everyone else, just dont change my strider!”

I really think schools now are failing at reading comprehension. Seriously. I mean it’s been clear, as you said, what everyone is saying. For the love of Pete.

[Pattyz-area-52]

I know very well what you are saying, actually.You want to keep the striders OP ability while simultaneously using a different piece of mount equipment on your other mounts, thus having direct access to both water walking and another ability- Continuing to put newcomers/returning players who haven’t rep grinded for the Strider at a disadvantage.

[Warpstone-norgannon (Warpstone)]

NOT ONE PERSON has said “dont implement mount equipment.”

You know this person is combing thru every post just to try and prove you wrong. But I, agree mount equipment sounds great just leave the strider alone.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

Continuing to put newcomers/returning players who haven’t rep grinded for the Strider at a disadvantage.

No actually I am the blood death knight that posted above about how I will have EVERY SINGLE mount equipment advantage because of class. If I could be a Zandalari DK I would even need to use a goblin glider mount equipment.

Tell me again how if I as a Blood DK can have every single mount equipment feature at one time, allowing other the ability to stop, change mounts and walk across water is ground breaking?

[Pattyz-area-52]

I really think schools now are failing at reading comprehension

Ironically, this is improper syntax. Perhaps you should go back to school?

[Orylie-kul-tiras (Orylie)]

At least I understood what you were saying. But hey, keep deflecting.

[Nearo-emerald-dream (Nearo)]

but it’s not difficult to surmise that the fact that Blizzard initially went with a water strider as the model for the water-walking mount is because they were drawing a parallel to the physical science behind how water striders in the real world walk on water.

Real life “water striders” aka any of the family of insects known as Gerridae in particular Aquarius remigis (which the artwork for the water strider is no doubt drawn from) have no parallel to the fantasy version in this game as although the Azure and Crimson water striders appear to walk on water they “splash” indicating that it is speed running across the water that keeps them on the surface rather than the nominal weight transfer ability of the pleuston animals which is how Aquarius Remigis stays dry. Gerridae family insects typically walk on the surface because their overall average downward pressure is not enough to break the air-water interface.

By themselves the Azure Water Strider’s overall Body Size Mass Index Equivalent would be enough to exert a downward pressure sufficient enough even given their unburdened size to penetrate the air-water interface (surface tension) which at 21.5 degrees C is 72.86 +/- 0.05 mN*m^-1 (72.81 - 72.91 miliNewtons per meter).

We know this because the average Gerridae male is about 1.2 cm long (not including the legs) and weighs about 10 dyne (thats 0.010197162129779282 grams)

If we assume a rider and the mount itself has a mass of 42.0 kilograms (i’m being facetious here most humans weight somewhere around 80kg (roughly double that of the value I am using for mount and rider and gear combined)) on Azeroth (on Azeroth Physical laws especially constants like G and g) tend to not work in a trustworthy manner). You would need to account for that much weight by distributing it over an area of 1.0 cm * (41,187,930 dyne/10) = a bug roughly 411 meters long. The bug would be half of the size of a Galaxy class star ship from Star Trek and the weight would be no more than that of a feather comparatively. If magic ISN’T involved here you are going to have an awfully hard time explaining with science (or even drawing a decent parallel to science) the existence of the water striders. Yet they exist within context of the game AND they walk on water. Your Kultiran Charger has more issues yet so we assume that the water walking “equipment” must have been derived from water walking potions, which were themselves made with certain herbs and animal parts/fluids. And it is these which are magical in nature and therefore the Water Strider Also is magical.

Everything in the game requires a degree of the suspension of disbelief, but there are certain elements in the game design that are distinctly meant to be thematically magical in nature vs. thematically physical in nature. Even though there’s no way a bird the size of a gryphon could carry a rider, we are not meant to believe that Gryphons can carry a rider due to magic, but rather due to their ability to sustain flight due to lift/drag from flapping their wings. Of course it’d be impossible for a bird that size to sustain flight with an armored rider, but their flight is not thematically magical in nature. In the same way, a Water Strider’s ability to walk on water is not meant to be thematically due to magic - but rather a physical ability. Sometimes those themes jump the shark and it becomes more and more difficult to achieve that suspension of disbelief. That threshold may be different for you than it is for others - and that’s fine. To me, it’s easier to believe that Kul Tiran charger would be able to walk on water due to some magical blessing on their horse shoes or whatever than to believe that an animal the size of a water strider has the innnate ability to walk on water due to it’s physiology, and there is nothing in the game that would indicate that water striders are magical in nature so that’s just your headcannon speaking.

Now to the larger issue now that your excuse for RP’ing no longer exists having been thoroughly debunked.

You flatter yourself.

You are on a RP Realm you say? And you WPVP in that context? Thats absolutely fine. Those on that realm that have a Water Strider Also are RP’ing that they can stride across the water on their magical fantasy mounts? What makes them different from you? That’s right. Nothing. Absolutely zero. They are pretending (Role Playing) that they have a mount that can stride across bodies of water just as you are pretending (Role Playing) that YOU are a brave medieval fantasy version of a Paladin (Knights Templar/Chevalier) who can through the use of magical potions or equipment walk on water. If you are not willing to allow them (in your mind) to access the magical Water Strider then you must be willing to no longer pretend to be the mighty paladin of yore using magical potions and equipment to walk on water.

Hey if people want to headcannon and RP that their water striders are magical in nature that’s fine with me - my initial statement was an answer to another individual who asked why I found it more immersive to use my Kul Tiran charger with water walking potions versus using a water strider. You do you, boo - I’ll do me.

So it ISN’T “immersion” breaking for you (as an objective vantage point rather than from a subjective vantage point) when someone else hops on their Water Strider to avoid you its just good strategy on their part and laziness on your part.
Which brings us full circle back to a behavior that is quite like that of any of the hundreds of griefers I have met in my time on Azeroth.

It’s actually a lot more work to keep up a stock of water walking potions on all my alts than it is to get a water stirder - but if you want to prescribe that to laziness… OK? People can use whatever they want - how you conflate my refusal to use a water strider and to instead use water walking potions along with my Kul Tiran charger as somehow equivalent to griefing behavior is a whole new level of mental gymnastics that I look forward to reading on the next 10 paragraph of nonsensical logical fallacies that you’ll undoubtedly vomit my way.

They cannot be troubled to go out of their way for the sake of the fantasy to earn their champion kills in honorable combat. Rather, they like the little boy who pulls the wings off of flies, finds the easiest kill that gives them whatever it is they desire from that kill (be it honor or just satisfaction of knowing you were able to camp someone without them having a viable means of escape) to be the most pleasurable.

That is the thing with most of the RP WPVP’ers out there. At least most of the bad ones. They only use the RP argument when it becomes convenient for them in the debate arena. Feeling free to cast RP under the bus when it suits them to do so.

/endrant

Spoken like someone who doesn’t know anything about RP-PvP. You also don’t know anything about me or how I RP and how I PvP - and that’s OK you don’t need to - but you sure are quick to call me a griefer simply because I disagree with you on the mount equipment changes when you don’t even know me. That kind of blinders-on willful ignorance kinda disqualifies you from any serious debate with me since you clearly have a bias against RP-PvP. I honestly can’t continue this discussion with you on any serious capacity if you are going to make the assumption that I’m coming from the position of being a griefer due to how I RP.

[Cairnage-greymane (Cairnage)]

Ironically, this is improper syntax. Perhaps you should go back to school?

This is the different in WoW players.

Some are so stuck on grammar rules, they cant see the overarching discussion because they are so focused on the minutia.

Others care less about the grammar rules because they focus on the message.

Both valid. One is memorization. One is knowledge and understanding.