I disagree; if we both can agree that Illidan is a villain, then what would that make someone who looks at his villainous deeds and tells us we were wrong to oppose them?
A villain themselves.
This was Xe’ra’s expressed feelings towards us; Illidan might have done bad, but it’s all gravy because it was all for the greater good. And opposing him at the Black Temple, opposing him at the seat of power where his worst crimes were commited, was blatantly wrong of us.
With this kind of outlook, Xe’ra must be viewed as evil. She is cosigning his evil as necessary. Thus if we view him as a villain, so too must she be one.
She aligned herself with a villain, celebrated that villain, glorified him, then tried to make the villain her own pawn. She died for her efforts.
The Cosmic forces are fighting for dominance. Xe‘ra represented the Light from different perspective. She did the right thing for her believes . Wrong move .
It’s their own personal experience that their voicing, why dig into it? lol
Listen man, it’s clear that this whole topic has become some weird symbolic thing for you…
It’s time to just drop it, honestly. Either you’re trying to bait people into saying something vaguely critical of religion so you can ‘counter’ it or you’re just continually baiting yourself and getting angry about nothing.
This topic has been derailed by this same thing over and over again, everything constructive about it has been said. In fact, there’s really nothing to discuss about this topic anymore to begin with because it’s obviously not that deep.
Drop it and move on, don’t entrench yourself and get angry over nothing.
If we are to take the villains’ words into consideration, we will soon be singled out as evil for defeating Zovaal, when the threat he pointed out emerges.
This isn’t the Halls of Congress, none of us are on “sides” here, what we are SUPPOSED to be discussing are the stories. Bringing personal perspectives on why one may hold an opinion on a story is fine and dandy and NOT A SINGLE PERSON, including myself would have had the slightest problem with you saying that you feel this way about X because of your personal beliefs.
It’s when you insisted that anyone who disagreed with your take on a story was essentially attacking YOUR personal beliefs that this soap opera came into being.
I grew out of your black and white absolutism decades ago. I do however understand that many people, even those of my age stubbornly cling to it. And that’s absolutely completely fine.
But one really needs to learn when to divorce your personal feelings from a matter at hand especially when what we’re discussing is entirely escapist fantasy. No one should expect enlightenment, validation, or for that matter even great story writing in this venue. This is not a hill that anyone should choose to die on, there aren’t really that many windmills worth tilting.
You don’t have to take his words into consideration- but the fact remains he used words before violence to defend himself.
Xera used her powers to constrain him after he disagreed. She attacked first, and he defended himself. He did not attack her first.
So your use of the term “overkill” is just wrong. There was nothing else he could do if he wanted to remain as he was. He tried just saying no, he didn’t go to the lazoring until she insisted.
I do sympathize with the situation that he was undergoing with Xe’ra that she was trying to force a change into him.
Changing him against his will that what I meant.
Cuz you know I have never raised an army nor killed demons to understand those situations.
You see a compelling villain or anti hero is good cuz we KNOW that they are bad, we know that they do bad things but still we see part of us in their history, you can understand their actions and why they’re doing it.
Illidan is a guy who failed in almost everything in his life following the orders and examples of others…
The girl he likes, likes his twin brother
The study with druidism failed
The job as a mage failed
The mission to save the well failed and imploded it.
The mission to kill tichondrius backfired and he got exiled
The mission to get kil’jaeden good graces failed 2 times. One he had to flee to outland
The other almost got killed by arthas.
Got betrayed by almost every friend or ally he had.
Almost died again to us the murderhoobos.
Got some victories in legion.
Xe’ra tried to force her will upon him not matter the cost
And in the end got to be the jailer of Sargeras and not see the fruits of his sacrifice.
What I mean you must sympathize with at least one of these situations in your life.
And that does not mean you need to love illidan or accept his bad actions.
Hmmm how to answers this…
Ok first its I who lived through that, i sumarize a traumatic experience that happened to me. That experience looks alot like what Xe’ra did to illidan, i did not cut ties with my family I love my mom alot but that does not make her immune from her own actions. Yes for me it was an exorcism.
I got locked in my room for 3 days without food to clean my blood from the earthly things.
I needed to read the bible over and over, just so I knew what god would do to me if I failed to get better.
I have a priest shaking me for hours and bathing my head in a bucket with cold water.
While my family watched and prayed apeaking in “tongues”
And I knew it was all a theater cuz I always knew I was gay, it did not changed me in the slightest, only made me disappointed with my family.
So I do sympathize with illidan when he did not let Xe’ra force her will upon him cuz I know what its like to have other ppl will forced into you.( even if they meant your well being) cuz I know my mom love me and she just wanted to save my soul.
Now you get it?
Edit: anyway this was just to be an example, it is getting rather personal, i really don’t care to discuss those things but I don’t think this is the right place to get deep into that theme.
You’re still doing double standards; Syiax admitted he’s doing what you criticize me for, but you don’t call him out.
Illidan and Sylvanas have quite a bit in common. I went over their traits in a thread.
The thing that makes it feel more like a victory for Illidan is that he gets exactly what he wanted. He gets to stay and guard Sargeras and which him suffer in his imprisonment. That’s a huge win for Illidan.
And World of Warcraft’s morals have often been built on double standards (maybe that’s why certain people on the forums keep using double standards in their arguments - like calls to like). I made a thread on that problem with the story too.
Killing Xe’ra is also absurd from a story perspective because she’s the most powerful representative of the Light encountered thus far. And not only is she jobbed, but it’s also a one-hit-kill. Illidan is not invincible - in the Harbingers’ cinematic a Pit Lord manages to knock him on his butt despite Illidan being a demon-killing specialist and a Pit Lord being a demon. In fact, those same eyebeams that job Xe’ra only scratch the Pit Lord. All this can be seen here;
If the writers want to villain bat Xe’ra, they’ve destroyed the idea that she can be a threat. Of course, that’s still a major double standard that some want to sweep everything Illidan did under the rug while at the same time cheering for the gratuitous demise of someone who was, at worst and to throw certain people a bone, a lesser evil.
I don’t see Syiax doing anything but sharing their personal feelings on this plotpoint via their personal experiences.
I also don’t see Syiax constantly having these same religious arguments on every single thread they post in…
You on the other hand…
Listen man, I’m not taking sides here. I just think it’d be in your best interest to simply stop responding to these kinds of things and let it go.
That’s the only reason I saw fit to respond to you.
No double standard, just telling you that it’s clearly not in your best interest.
That’s all.
My favorite moments in Pathfinder are when I roll a measly amount of damage and that’s exactly what’s needed to end the fight. We call that an “efficient kill”.
There’s a few other people having the same religious arguments on various threads (a few from the opposite side to me) including this one, but I don’t see you calling them out, so there’s still a double standard.
If I was “sharing my personal feelings on this plot point via my personal experiences”, would you still try to silence me?