Odyn is a villain on our side. He has sympathetic goals but his bloodlust, hatreds and “I know best” attitude causes more problems then it solves. A Major reason the old gods could even corrupt the keepers was because Odyn treated Helya super poorly, causing their most powerful sorceress to resent everything he did. He also managed to get Sigryns brother to fall to the legions influence and almost cause her to fall as well via the fact he assassinated their family in an attempt to stop them from falling.
In reality Odyn proves that while the end’s justify the means is noble and all, if your means just make the problem worse you wind up just looking like a jerk. Intent does not matter, the results do, and Odyn’s results have proven very poor.
Odyn is 100% not Lawful Good, He is Lawful Neutral at best, Lawful Evil at worst. Lawful Good characters would not go assassinate every single person related to someone because they might turn evil, nor would they force someone to undergo a transformation against their will (Convince them to maybe, but not force them)
Anyone who does these things and claims to be Lawful Good has about as much knowledge of their alignment as a person who say’s that because they are chaotic neutral, they can be a massive jerk and commit crimes. Otherwise Dr. Doom would be Lawful Good, and we all know that ain’t true.
I feel like most of the arguments for ‘Odyn was a good guy’ or ‘Odyn did what was necessary’ run into the fundamental issue of the fact that Odyn failed to accomplish anything. The ends don’t justify the means when ‘the ends’ are Yogg-Saron breaking out, the curse of flesh running rampant, Azeroth becoming almost totally corrupted and, let’s not forget, the apocalyptic demon invasion being foiled not because of, but in spite of you.
Odyn was a problem. Odyn was in the way. Odyn was making the heroes ‘prove their valor’ while the world burned. People in Azeroth are dead that would have been alive if our PC had been there to help them instead of running around picking up Odyn’s VALOUROUS laundry. And it’s not like it was necessary to prove that we could be trusted with the Aegis, since if we hadn’t been there, the prize would have gone to the literal Burning Legion, so guess those trials weren’t very good. Odyn could have had the Valarjar or the Warrior PC take the Aegis to Dalaran as soon as Dalaran got there, he was just too full of himself and his way of doing things. It’s one thing to be convinced that your way is the only way and to do horrible things in service of what you think is right. It’s another to do so while also being clearly, evidently delusional.
Whoah whoah I was just say’n. Having a good alignment dosen’t make someone a nice person. I would agree Odyn is no longer Lawful Good. He was also never at any point a nice person.
This comes up in the Pathfinder campaign setting with worshippers of good deties like Saerenrae owning slaves. Good does not equal nice.
Wait, Pathfinder lets followers of good deities be evil? As I tend to go with the Law/Chaos side being the view on society/world at large and good/evil being how one treats people, and at least the PF SRD seems to support that view too.
But the PF SRD defines Evil as “Evil implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others” I mean, I totally get that while they don’t think they are evil, a society that as a whole practices slavery would be evil aligned. I mean, if that was a neutral diety I could see it, but that just seems odd
I know. Saerenrae is NG so she could have N worshippers and clerics and they would still get spells. I know she emphasizes being a “good master” much like the Bible does. So if someone was a cruel owner Saerenraes church would punish the offender or a cleric would not get spells. The Bible was used to justify slavery in the US afterall.
They are generally considered Lawful Good and their bases are on Good planes.
Their one big secret is the camps they are running, forcing Chaotic and Neutral beings to become Lawful and Good. Good, Evil, doesn’t matter to them. The ends justify the means with them when it comes to Law, Good, and Order.
Sound familiar? cough Yrel and the Lightbound cough
The Harmonium caused one of the plane of Arcadia to FALL INTO MECHANUS! They started as Lawful Good but slowly became more and more Lawful neutral, to the point they caused a part of one of the Outer Planes, the embodiment of alignment, to fall into another part.
What he does, he does because he is trying to protect our world and safeguard against future threats. He hasnt been doing any of his deeds from a position of selfishness or any intent to do evil. He hasnt gone out and hurt anyone or tried to conquer the world for his own benefit or amusement, however many of his deeds in the process of trying to protect the world were heartless and infringed upon the rights (and health) of others in negative ways. (He’s also all about combat and valor, so he’s rather casual with violence.)
He is that moral grey we’ve been promised and rarely see. His intentions are good, and his mission is good, however his methods can get rather shady.
Its up to each of us to decide for ourselves if that means he’s 1) A Force for Good, that may not always choose means you’re comfortable with, or 2) A deluded, petty, chaotic god-like being that claims to do good, but really just plows through whatever is in the way of his sacred “mission” with zero care for the collateral damage he causes.
From my character’s perspective, he’s an ally. Not one I’m proud of, and one that I find rather petty and arrogant, but one I’m stuck with for the time being.
