Warriors currently worst class in Shadowlands?

Classes Warrior
102

Ya know what, you have zero credibility and the truth is you don’t have nearly any clue of what you’re talking about, but you talk to big game. As of Saturday only 12 guilds in the world have killed Heroic Sire Denathrius. And it is now being said by those very high-end guilds that heroic Nathria is much higher tuned than previous heroic raids.

So, just like I said any guild that has killed Denathrius is in fact a very good mythic guild, any guild that is on the last two or three bosses is a very good high-end guild.

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103

And then no casual player will continue to PvP once mythic loot is open to an elitist class. It was a good run for the first few weeks though!

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104

This is a piss poor thread hijacked by 8 year olds and people arguing about nothing.

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105

Let me know your thoughts when you start doing mythic +. I won’t judge.

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106

This is more of a personal thought than any kind of fact. I dont want to claim to have a bunch of statistical data or info, but I feel warrior as a class is generally at the bottom for pve. In thinking this I am just taking into account all 3 specs, as Prot I have heard from people that compared to other tanks Prot takes much more effort and precision to come close to any of the other tank options, for dps and survivability/mitigation.

Mainly I just think about how lacking each spec is at their given role in PvE content. So for Prot survivability/mitigation dps and threat generation or lack there of, in M+ and Raid. And for Arms and Fury im only thinking about the potential DPS output they can produce in M+ and Raiding (ST). When thinking of this I also consider which other class dps specs might also be parsing equally as bad as one or both the warrior specs. After that I think do the other classes doing just as bad in these areas as arms/fury have another spec that is exceeding one of or both the warrior dps specs. So as an example someone mentioned assasination rogues having alternative options such as outlaw and subtlety. For hunter you have MM and BM, im not caught up on mages state but you know what im getting at, whether it be stupid or not idk.

So essentially im just wondering, why is it you dont think Warrior is currently the worst class overall for PvE content, and im also curious what class do you think is in a worse position overall when it comes to Tanking or DPS. Classes which have both tank/dps specs or only dps specs, or maybe even healing.

Heres an example. As an arms warrior I would need to parse at the 95th percentile to perform equal to a MM Hunter parsing in the 70th percentile.
Looking at these parses as well you can see Fury as bottom, while arms is 5th last. The only specs below arms are Havoc, Assasination, Frost and Destruction. There could be an argument made for Havoc, they are 2 below arms, but those other specs all have an alternative choice to perform well, and is easier to perform the same as a 95th percentile warrior. Im not up to date with how Vengeance DH is doing but I would imagine they are much easier to heal and hold threat than a Prot at the moment so there is that alternative for Havoc but unfortunately they dont have another dps option.

Not trying to argue, im genuinely curious what your thoughts are on all of this, and knowing your approach I completely expect to be kind of made to look foolish with what I have said, and I already have mentioned how what I am saying might be foolish, Im just kind of ignorant about it, so hoping you can shed some light for me.

WCLogs: I tried linking the links but I am not allowed. All you need to do is visit Warcraftlogs and select Rankings, then filter to 95th percentile, open a new tab and filter 70th percentile.

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107

I play arms. Condemn is fun. Im having fun.

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108

I’m fine with it taking more effort and precision, and I can execute that successfully.

Having to struggle with rubber banding health while adds are stripping because Thunder Clap puts out tepid threat on top of mechanics - that’s when I’m going to say I need a teensy bit of help. As long as adds stick to me and I can potentially kite them, it opens up so much focus and breathing room.

There is nothing more embarrassing than an add running over and porking a DPS. It’s just frankly difficult to pull mobs that are more than 20 yards apart as a warrior, especially when they are a caster. It requires very careful targeting. It doesn’t help that heroic throw is not even registering on the threat meter against a DPS. I have to use Taunt (or shield slam, if in melee) when I lose threat. It’s the only thing that works.

I’m hoping that the threat mod makes it easier to get along, leaving me with mechanics, hard hitting mobs crowd control/interrupts, GCD cap, no ranged interrupt, timing spell reflect in pug groups to focus on. If I can at least toss a ravager and a thunder clap and not have a mage or boomkin pulling an add or two within 3 seconds of pull, it will give me a bit more breathing room.

Currently, I’m struggling pretty bad and not doing well in keys above 6. It’s actually embarrassing.

Going to try Bolster next week and see if it helps or hinders.

I do also want to say - they have to be very careful with this. Because Revenge does a TON of damage right now. I can easily pull 5k in pretty big trash packs with revenge spam and ravager. Damage is not an issue, the fundamental issue is that I have no rage or GCDs to spend on revenge because all of my rage is going straight into ignore pain. If I become strong enough to where content becomes trivial, I can spam Revenge and put the DPS to shame in AoE. If I can at least have enough GCD cycles and enough survivability to cast a Revenge or two per pull, I’m usually fine on threat. It’s just something that requires very careful tuning, but

I do think the survivability needs to be adjusted just so that I’m not having to spam every ounce of rage on ignore pain. It’s a balance. If I can just comfortably cast it without worrying about being dry during a damage spike, I’ll be in a good spot.

2 Likes
109

Christ, you can’t even get this right. It’s 18, not 12.

Additionally, let’s go back to the point that you somehow, by the grace of God, managed to fail to understand.

Prior to Nathryia, of the guilds that cleared it by your Saturday deadline, one was previously wr 250, one was wr 400, one was wr 200, one was wr 1600, one was wr 300, one was wr 14,000, one was wr 8,500, one was wr 1,100, and another only has two placements, at wr 1,100 and 1,900.

So of the guilds that have cleared the raid by that date, literally half either A; have never even gotten into HoF alliance, or B; have never even cleared mythic, period.

Some of the guilds clearing are not even mythic raiding guilds. They literally don’t raid mythic.

You are literally saying that guilds clearing, the only guilds clearing, are top end, best of the best guilds, when half of them aren’t even remotely that.

And if we look at now? You know, now that the full week has gone by? (Some people don’t raid until Mon/Tues, it’s wild mate) there’s 160 so far. And again, EU has another bloody day and a half, and Asia has double that. Many of them haven’t even set foot in the raid yet.

Are you done being silly?

I didn’t say I didn’t. To be clear, I’m not putting any time or effort into worry about what’s better or worse until Wednesday, at which point I will take into account the state of things and act accordingly.

Before that point, it’s all bloody moot.

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110

I was doing a ton of M+ in bfa but ok lol, sorry I didn’t feel like pushing 15s week one sir.

lmao i had higher io than you in season 4 and you’re trying to say “i don’t do M+”

111

doesnt seem like many pvpers in here but as a warrior main so far into shadowlands i can confirm warriors also suck in pvp lol

112

Lololol yeah Derez why not post on your main. If Derez is even your real name!

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113

That’s not really relevant and not really what I meant. What I mean is, wait til you do them on this tier for yourself and let me know what your thoughts are on the spec.

If anything the fact that you were pushing tons of M+ in bfa should give you some perspective.

I’m not aware of anyone that has said that they like prot warrior better now. Do you know of a specific person?

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114

Literally the entire skyhold discord?

115

dont you worry 5% buff will fix everything.

right? Kappa

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116

Really.

Today at 9:01 AM

Ok cool I’mma try that today. That attack hits pretty hard. Wiped on them for like 3 hours yesterday thankfully it was not fault of the squishy prot warrior lol

Today at 8:32 AM

Score one for me \o/

unstoppable force

its not a good talent

TC took a pretty big nerf this expansion

so its really not good for threat generation

plus TC isnt highest prio anymore even during avater and its hard to weave in

so basically 2 things

take raveger talent

it will give you more rage and more damage

and secondly spend some rage into revenge

Today at 6:21 AM

Yeah ive been beating my head against a wall in these +10 keys. I got 3 of the best dps and an amazing healer and ive been putting em through hell

Today at 9:25 AM

he’s spitting facts tbh

tanks in general aren’t in a super hot spot

Today at 9:27 AM

I just hate that I’m forced to kite

Today at 9:27 AM

Same

I hate kiting

Today at 9:28 AM

he’s hella right about like

all you have to do in M+

is pull 3 mobs at a time, dont die, and you time the key

Today at 9:28 AM

I don’t know about any of you, but I started tanking because I watched videos in TBC of paladins pulling everything, healing from blocks with figurine of the colossus

I want to facetank everything

at 9:28 AM

all the tanks are close in balance, but all the tanks are kinda bad

1 Like
117

And you L2 understand context, though.

The difference in survivability alone may be small, but when you’re even just a little lower on survivability compared to other tanks such as paladins and DHs who also have better damage, tons of self-heals, and who bring a gazillion times more utility… then yeah, it’s crap… even though you can still do the content.

Prot warriors should be considerably more sturdy, or more damaging, or a balance of both, compared to other tanks. Because that’s the only way they can shine in their own way when opposed to classes that can silence every couple seconds, pull a bunch of mobs together, self-heal like crazy, resurrect or battle ress, bubble self and others, etc etc etc…

118

Prot does take less damage, though. By design. It has the least self healing, and takes the least damage to compensate. Every tank is on the same spectrum in that regard.

119

That seems like kind of a generic statement.

Shield block doesn’t reduce damage on magic damage or bleeds, Ignore Pain is an absorb and is counted on heals by most meters. The heals are actually fairly substantial even if less than, say, blood DK. Our damage mit against magic damage is relegated to Spell Reflect, Demo and Wall.

On blockable damage, I agree, I just don’t know that this is accurate for all damage profiles and I don’t know that this is the consensus opinion even if it is a generic design goal.

120

Specifically talking physical damage. Magic and bleed damage is separate, and every tank is weak to both by design.

121

Good post overall. Have a question on this:

Maybe in higher keys with a DPS going full blast into a target? It generating a ton of threat for me given the minimal damage. I’ve only tanked low keys and non-seasonal content… why I ask.