Are you really just remembering what your guildies did in WotLK and going off that? My God man.
Fury warriors were the uncontested kings of ICC. Unlimited rage, 100% armor pen, and freaking Shadowmourne. AND RAGE GEN KEPT SCALING WITH THE STACKING DAMAGE BUFF! Mages did almost as much, and tended to come ahead when a fight didn’t favor melee.
There are literally blizzard posts where they cite Fury’s dominance of ICC in their decision to normalize raid going into cata.
Choose Venthir covenant. Problem solved. Condemn is OPAF
If we are talking only due to Shadowmourne that’s about the dumbest thing to say Fury was OP over. A legendary in WotLK are not like they are today. It took a whole guild working together to make one. They were very rare. You’re telling me a Fury Warrior without Shadowmourne was beating a Comate Rogue in DPS in ICC? Possible but not likely because Combat Rogues were better on equal grounds.
All that is a difference in how people think, because most people I would think don’t consider those that had a Legendary in the rankings. They were supposed to be OP. An exception to every other player on that server. I can guarantee that Shalashaska did not consider a furry warrior with Shadowmourne in the running for “most powerful class”, because without that very very rare weapon…
Edit: Yes Mages were very good, but I did not say that Combat was the very best in all situations. What I was saying is that Fury was not kings of ICC, because most people don’t add in the one guy that got lucky enough to be selected for the Legendary in guilds. I actually played a Lock In ICC. Many people considered Locks to the most powerful in early ICC, as I remember there was a nerf on them at some point in ICC. I mean should we count locks before the nerf?
Which is to be ‘expected’ of arms in 3v3 scenario no matter what cus 50% MS and if they’re kyrian or Venthyr it’s pretty much saying “Yep you’re dead” especially if arms condemned does 8k crit. Still though Sub rogues could just ‘one shot’ regardless and I doubt those cry babies of the rogues who are wanting to keep their OP damage is trying to get other stuff ‘nerfed’
When you have youtubers and other streamers, even higher tier players saying Sub rogues is actually just way overtuned there is a problem when there multiple clips of oneshots.
The problem with Arms is not the damage as it mostly balanced without few steps to almost 10k crit someone. It’s really how rage starved they’re and how slow they can get to that point where they’re deleting people.
Well its a good thing I listed at least two other reasons in the same sentence huh? People gave their Fury warrior Shadowmourne because they were top dps, and when you had one it wasn’t even close.
Yes, I am. In ICC gear Fury warriors were substantially stronger. Rage scaled directly with damage done. It was absurd. Combat was third. They might have been narrowly better going into ICC, but after even early progression, Fury could no longer be kept up with. People never seem to remember how warrior scaling worked back when it actually existed, but man they’ll insist its still around.
I never feel rage starved. Personally i use skullsplitter and it helps me out a lot. But it is no different than a DK with runic power. It’s just about managing it properly and learning how to fill the gaps.
While that might fill in the gaps for other sorts of content I feel like standing there waiting for rage on some other points waiting for CD to come off.
I hate GCD
A capital christ. 
I still think there’s an issue with Warrior damage. Hence, 20% MS buff coming Tuesday. But I have had my concerns with the Arms mastery change since it happened. This is because I come from Monk, of which new Deep Wounds is a copy and paste (replace “non-duplicated skill” with “maintain debuff”, which is worse as far as the upkeep tax goes, particularly on multi-target). I think they will need to continue to play catch up with single target skill auras while AoE remains strong but cooldown gated thanks to Bladestorm applying mastery. Here’s something to consider…
Damage calculates on a basis of something like this:
D*C*V*M*H
D is your base damage, C is a multiple based on crit chance and damage, V is versatility (and easiest to calculate), M is mastery, and H is haste… Pretty elementary decision without technical nuance of the scaling principles. This works (as long as you convert each with its own function–e.g. haste becomes an inverse multiple because of its 0->inf. bounding).
But here’s the desync… Crit, mastery, and versatility functions are each a little different… The scaling of mastery (the percent mastery factor, pmf) is slightly higher than the scaling of versatility (pvf). In some aspect, duh it should be, as V comes with a damage reduction component. But please, read on…
*I am sorry to anyone familiar with probability mass function and my abuse of acronyms.
Blizzard tries to address this via the scaling per rating; however, as the expansion continues, the differential power gain of each stat varies on the base of the prior patch’s “baseline”. That is to say going from 20->30 crit chance is more impactful to damage as a multiple than going from 30-40 crit chance. Because pmf is greater than pvf AND the raw baseline of mastery is higher than versatility, it takes more over time to get the same multiplicative benefits as the lower value. That is, unless pmf and pvf are tuned in conjunction with new patch baselines, expect a problem scaling. Further, expect too high of burst (because +% damage spikes the highs, without much contribution to the lows) which helps avoid the issue of sustained damage over longer fights. Altogether, it helps a justification of continued skill aura tuning +% here, -% there, that wouldn’t be needed with a better designed type of mastery.
Specifically for the current iteration, Deep Wounds should start at 5%, pmf should scale only slightly faster than pvf, and Warrior damage should get a universal buff to offset the mastery nerf.
Outside of current iteration, I think I would prefer to see mastery with a couple benefits… heavier white damage and Overpower damage, a lower incremental damage bonus from Overpower stacks to Mortal Strike, and bonus rage generation. Yes, Arms Warrior should be spiky. But we already can actualize spikyness via Vers and Crit, and normalize the frequency of spikes via Haste. This Mastery would improve only the MS spike, and would help to improve the low points of the rotation as a general damage increase.
Ya, not since rage was normalized. I mained a warrior longer than any other class I have played. Vanilla, TBC, WotLK till ICC, Cata, WoD, and Legion (I really wanted the Mage tower Shield, when I got it I found out half the flail would be stuck in the ground, really kills the look).
How many of you guys have been running with an Enh shamy?
It’s not expected for arms to be super s tier every season. They are phenomenal in pvp right now. And it’s not just damage, it’s the defensives and the utility. Reflect, intervene (which can break cc), ignore pain, dbts, zerk for fear and sap, cs, banner, sharpen.
Pvp wise, arms is the most complete melee.
I’m just making a point that to have a post say “warrior is worst class” (which is right now under one asking for arms pvp nerfs) while one of the class specs is top tier in pvp doesn’t work.
That’s it. Can there be fixes for pve and other areas, absolutely.
But to say the class is garbage just isn’t objectively correct. It can’t be garbage and top tier at the same time.
Fake news. I agree Warrior is not busted in the negative sense, but like… C’mon, they’re not immortals.
Complete does not equal immortal. Their kit is just more complete than any other melee. That’s what I was saying. They’re in a very good spot arena wise - not busted IMO, jut really well built.
That’s not a bad thing, it’s good. More classes and specs should be like that.
I mean, rogues kits are pretty complete. What’s your conditions for completeness?
Yea, rogue, ww and arms are all top notch melee. Arms just has group utility unlike anything else.
Commanding shout, intervene, banner.
Plus what they do on their own with defensives, reflect, zerk, etc; they can just bring so much to a team besides big dam.
It’s not like I think there’s a huge gap.
I’d say sub, ww, and arms are all top melee, but arms is a slightly ahead number 1a.
This is of course my opinion.
Looking at (obviously 1 week) the top 3s rep above 2100, arms is second to disc priest.
https://www.arenamate.net/?region=&realm=&rating=2100&ladder=3v3&faction=
I would do 2400, but theres so few there (arms still 2 to disc, though then ret as 3 but its like 8 people).
I’d love to see covenant data and the alternative axis of “percent of X spec above 2100” (total n possibly players >1400 to avoid non-ranking statistics). Otherwise the picture is incomplete, though helps toward building a better understanding. How does that same picture look for 2s arenas?
Prot warrior is a dumpster truck in an F1 race…will it finish? Sure…will everyone already have gone home? Probably.
I think you’re just abysmal at prot tbh.
Can you stop being so annoying with your trolling
I agree, after playing with arms a bit conduits is really what boosts it even higher especially the MS one double hit with sharpen blade than the regular one. reminding me of all the Vanilla back then.
Really Arms is S tier but soon they loose healer they’re kind of tiny bit of squishy to at least get the damage out since they have no self heals.