I mean warriors use to not connect to mages at all esp if they were good in a 1v1… however id assume hit ret would give him freedom or his dk would grip the mage to him.
Wow what a terrible response!!! They should just let the glass canon spec 1 shot their entire team unless they play ret war or tsg “which has been a garbage comp for the entire xpac.”
I’m still the terror of durotar and casual bgs as fire 
atleast
I mean im not tlaking about mages and warriors im talking about warriors mobility in general
Double time would grant a second charge and not reduce the cooldown or increase it slightly.
Warrior is pretty insane in terms of mobility.
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But that’s the thing. You can’t just ignore that aspect of it. If warrior has reduced mobility, so do the casters that it needs to connect to.
Which casters have the mobility of a warrior?
Warrior gets like 10 gap closers a minute on average one per 6 seconds, yes some gaps are larger than 6 seconds but then you can use 2 in a row. This doesn’t include blade storm or storm bolt, both of which can be used to gap close.
I mean i could be wrong here but in 3s dont locks just play with another caster and triangle formation stand in the center of the map and out pve melee cleaves?
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First off, if any caster has = or < mobility to melee it needs to be reworked. Since melee needs uptime to connect. Something like a root or any cc is an anti gap closer. If you have a slow on you as a warrior, someone stuns you off of them. You can’t reconnect without trading a mobility cd.
Also they have 9 in the first minute, then after that it’s reduced to 5 or 6 a minute.
Mage has 8- 10 in the first minute along with being able to root 6-7 times, knock 3 times, and have a consistent slow applied.
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It’s 10 with 2 heroic leaps included, no? 8 in the second minute?
Of course snares and roots are a solid tool. The problem is they are subject to dispel, you can’t dispel gap closers.
I’m not saying a Warrior can’t be kited at all. I am saying it’s balanced in a Warriors favor generally speaking. Yes comp changes the balance. Generally speaking not being able to connect is not a huge problem if a problem at all for warriors and that makes it a real issue for range.
This is part of the problem, the constant (arms race) mobility race between mage and warrior. If you’re not one of those mobility improvements have been much harder to come by.
2 initial charges, 4 more within a minute, initial leap, 2 more within a minute. But all this is only if you instantly put leap and charge on cd. It’s more likely to be 7 in the first minute.
I’ve said this 10 times in this thread alone.
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Remove double time and put old (stun) intercept on the same choice talent as stormbolt. That’s my 2c on warrior.
Let intercept have like 25 or 20s cd or something. Something lower than stormbolt but you have to commit to stunning that target by charging to them.
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Charge Leap
1_________2
3
18
20
_________32
35
37
52
54
Best case is around 10. You can move heroic leap around a bit to make it closer to reality in terms of GCD cooldown.
The reason I talk about double time is because it’s the problem. Going from 1-2 charges alone gets increased use rate per minute from 4 to 6. Doing both reducing CD and adding charge takes it up to 8.
Cutting the cooldown by 50% with 1 use is only ~6 per minute. Reducing the CD from 20 seconds down to 9 with one use would get you roughly the same number per minute without the flexibility of using 2 in a row when needed save heroic leap. Having two charges and a lower CD is probably about as powerful as having charge on a 7-8 second CD single use.
If a warrior get’s into range for just over 3 seconds at a time, it’s still a majority of uptime. If you take 8 as best case they only need to stay on target for about 4 seconds at a time to have 50/50ish.
No I don’t want warriors or anyone to be kited to death every game. But I do think we need to do some work, work to more than just warriors, a lot of work actually. So the melee/range uptime is a bit more balanced between classes while conserving every ones chances to win.
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Charge is a 17 second cooldown.
You get 2 to start and I’m giving you the extra 8 seconds on the last one, but 4 in the next minute. Total of 6
Leap is a 30 second cooldown. so initial 1, then 2 more. A total of 3
What is 3+6? 9!
And this is only if you press your first leap and charge instantly and off cd from then on. If not, you reduce it down to 7.
There’s is no universe to get 10 of these off in a minute. It’s basic math dude…
Then in the next minute, you get 4 charges. since ya know. 17 second cd. Still giving you the extra 8 seconds.
Then you get 2 leaps cuz ya know. 30 second cd.
Total 6
Your math is just all over the place.
If warrior gets in range at 3 seconds at a time in the first minute you have 27 seconds of uptime and in the following minute you have 18 seconds of uptime. You really think a spec should ever only have 30% uptime? If someone has that little uptime, they better absolutely crush when they connect.
Ok I was wrong about the way the CD and the number of uses worked.
My bad, thought the CD of each charge were independent of each other.
You win.
this time…
The gap closers wouldn’t be so noticeable if you could cc or snare a Warrior. Having 4 root breaks is completely ridiculous. It’s bad enough you can’t get their sticky jazz hands off the back of your shirt but, you just can’t do any meaningful cc to them. Let ‘em have the mobility. Trade some of these crazy immunes with something else. Or let ‘em have everything and lower the damage ceiling.
It’s funny because there’s a pretty solid argument to be made that 20 second charge + 30 second intercept was better mobility than two charges of charge on a 17 second cooldown, because they could both recharge at once.
People have really been falling back on the idea that there’s some kind of mobility arms race between warrior and mage that’s leaving everyone else in the dust, but realistically warrior mobility isn’t that insane compared to what it was in cataclysm.
Heroic leap has a 15 second shorter cooldown. We have an extra mini bladestorm which wont close distance but at least makes us immune to snares, and we have the option for an extra intervene charge with a longer cooldown and a 3min cooldown root break on commanding shout, while losing access to the improved hamstring root.
I’m not gonna go down the list for every single class in the game because that gets way too tedious, but basically every class has had a pretty comparable level of mobility creep in either ways to cover distance or ways to control other players movement. There’s a lot more knockbacks, shorter cooldown teleports / jumps, snares and snare suppression.
They can’t use gap closers while storming, and most warriors are running hurricane so they can’t cancel aura bladestorm if you do move away. Also you can static field totem + totemic projection to move them away from you while they bladestorm, and they can’t cancel to kill the totem. You can also run Gust of Wind and just hop out of bladestorm every 30-20 seconds and even sit in ghost wolf so you don’t even have to deal with the 70% slow from storm of destruction.
Bladestorm damage isn’t as weak as it was earlier this expansion (since they’ve shifted our high end damage on to Overpower, Slam and Bladestorm), but it’s not the big damage window. The big damage window comes after bladestorm, when we are entirely susceptible to CC.
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I dont get this hypothetical situations at all
Is it a 1v1? If so who cares those arent balanced
Is it a 2v2? Then cordinate with your healer? Stand in the middle of the map and out pve them use mobility when they pop cds/have your healer cc them.
Is it 3v3? You have two other teammates to help peel or provide more pressure to get them off you.
I dont really understand this arguement or context. Maybe I’m just bad idk but melee and range other then like 2 outlier specs seem pretty balanced
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I mean I would say this is fair. The only real way to know would be objective stats with up times for each melee against each ranged/comp.
I will fully admit my own experience isn’t enough. Although I will say even watching high end game play I don’t see the high mobile melee being kited a ton either. It happens but normally it’s pretty high uptime.
Probably because theirs no point in kiting a melee 100% of the time because doing that is stopping you from damaging while limiting theirs.
Isnt it best to just kite them and cc them on their cds or counter pressure?
Like im pretty sure warrior pops cds someone lands cc on healer you counter pressure warrior he has to run, die, or healer wastes trinket.
No?
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