they quite literally just did that with affliction…
i am not entirely sure how explaining how demo and destro feel is relevant to this conversation when we are talking about if its possible to balance them for both raids and M+.
We already know because there are specs like that that function like that in the game and warlocks specs have in fact done that in the past.
okay?
If you feel like Affliction has a good spec tree for balancing AoE vs ST, then so be it, I dont disagree. Just the fact that you need to take Soul Swap in pure ST to path down the tree kills it for me, though. Also, not every spec is Affliction. It’s not as simple as “Oh hey, just do this”. If it were, you would’ve wrote down the things you would like changed about Demo in order to have a similar outcome. Demo’s AoE is literally its ST with Implosion added to it. Its core AoE and ST abilities are the same, thus making it harder to tune. You would have to split the damage profiles in such a way that Affliction has. One being Seed of corruption for AoE and the other being Malefic Rapture for ST.
You mention that Demo has a bad damage profile for M+ as if it’s supposed to have a good one. You have 3 specs you can choose from. Destro is doing just fine in keys. The thing is that you aren’t providing any context as to what key levels or dungeons you feel Demo is so bad.
All I’m getting from your arguments is that you want a Warlock S tier spec for keys. What’s odd is that you say that neither of the other 2 specs are performing as good as Demo, but Destro is better in 80% of the keys at high key levels, and Aff can likely beat out Demo in the keys where you would play Demo after this patch.
You completely misunderstood my argument. i am not arguing rather or not the trees are designed well(i think they aren’t) but rather or not they are capable of balancing M+ and raids separately which they absolutely are.
I never said this.
You mention it here.
How do you suggest they do this? I’m telling you it’s easier to do it for Aff because they have 2 completely different spenders for ST and AoE, and you can create/change talents to affect those specific spenders to buff or nerf their output. Demo doesn’t have as easy due to its ST and AoE spenders being literally the same aside from Implosion and some minor passives like dreadlash and such. Minor passives like that rarely carry your damage in M+.
It is time for Man’ari Warlocks !
Again, thats a general statement not directed to Demo specifically. You took it completely out of context. The full context was about classes not demo specifically. So again no i never said Demo has a bad damage profile for M+. This is perhaps the biggest reach ive ever seen.
Your counter argument is “well how would you do it” and when ppl create counter arguments like that i always and will always respond with “pay me and than ill tell you” because its not my job, its blizzards job.
You literally replied to a statement I was making about Demo and wrote that it has a bad damage profile. That isn’t reaching. I’m sorry that you chose to write a general statement after quoting a post regarding Demo lock.
Sounds like you’ll never get exactly what you want then. You want things to be a certain way, yet you won’t provide any path to maybe open Blizzard’s eyes all because they’re not paying you. Remember that when you’re paying them to play a class you hate the tuning and damage profile of 
Enjoy your evening
no your statement wasnt just about demo it was also about warlock, let me remind you.
In this statement you are saying Demo is playable in keys(no one not even me are disputing this fact). You also than are saying its the best of the 3 specs for low keys.(again no one is disputing this fact).
This is where i took issue with. This also proves you weren’t just talking about Demo but Warlock as a whole and your whole point of bringing up Demo was to say Lock was fine in M+ because you can just play Demo in low keys.
Second thing i want to point out where you are once again being disingenuous. You clipped point B. without mentioning point A. and C. to create an argument that i was talking about demo instead of warlock and classes in general to create an argument that i said demo was bad in M+, extreme reaching so once i again, i never said Demo was bad in keys(in fact that statement never said any class was bad in keys but rather if a class is, its generally but not always because of the kit design). The fact that i have to explain this is probably a testament to your reading comprehension more than anything.
Again reading comprehension, i never said i wanted anything(for the record i got what i wanted which was reduced seeds cast time and a bit more ST in dungeons on Aff.). I have no complaints about the class personally but that doesn’t mean i get to dismiss other’s complains nor does it mean the class is “complete” and cant be better which was the point.
I’ve replied to every single one of your posts unless there was nothing to reply to. You want to claim that I lack reading comprehension for the sake of trying to make me look bad and that’s fine.
It doesn’t change the fact that you’ve yet to provide where you feel the class lacks in the Mythic plus ladder, what changes you would like to see, or anything else that you feel would help the class. You clearly want a dominating spec in Mythic plus. You don’t want balance, you just want Warlock to be an outlier in Mythic plus.
Players that care about the game and their class will provide constructive feedback as to what changes they would like to see for their class/spec. Blizzard will never magically know players would like to see change in their class/spec without player feedback. Coming into a post saying:
without providing any meaningful changes you’d like to see literally tells Blizzard nothing. There’s a reason you see players like Kalamazi constantly making videos regarding changes they feel will be positive for all 3 Warlock specs.
This is also another points that has 0 value. There are 26 dps specs for Blizzard to balance. Somebody is going to be lower on the tier list than others. Also, unless you are doing Cutting Edge keys, you don’t need to play S tier specs. You’ve yet to provide anything that tells me you do anything above 20s, if that.
Anyway, I’m done arguing with you since like I mentioned above, there is no meaningful discussion happening here. I’d suggest not wasting your time replying as I’ll be muting this thread. Cheers.
Theres a core reason why i am saying you lack reading comprehension and its because of stuff like this:
Because i never claimed it needed anything, that was never my argument. Ill dumb it down for you using my original statement:
this translate to me saying: just because one spec is good in another piece of content and the other spec is not doesn’t mean that it is fine.(this is general statement on how balance should be approached, not a statement on how balance currently is.)
This is what it doesn’t translate to “demo(or any other spec) is having problems in M+ / pvp”
This is regards to you saying and i quote "being B tier at best in keys is more than fine considering all 3 warlock specs are performing well in raid. "
This translate to you that you dismissing it because all 3 warlock specs are doing well in raids that if they arent doing well in dungeons its because of core design flaws thats causing it(this was proven when they quite literally completely replaced talents to get aff working in dungeons again.)
This does not translate to: “i want demo changes” and i am quite baffled that you came to that conclusion let alone thinking a response like “without providing any meaningful changes you’d like to see literally tells Blizzard nothing. There’s a reason you see players like Kalamazi constantly making videos regarding changes they feel will be positive for all 3 Warlock specs.” was even remotely appropriate.
I feel like this one is extremely obvious that its a general statement do i need to translate it?
Again not saying Demo is bad here i said it was “mid” which it is. Mid isnt bad but it also isnt meta defining. Before you misunderstand yet again, no i am not asking for Warlocks to be a meta pick in M+ but that theres no reason they shouldnt try to balance warlocks to be closer to each other in M+(and if you somehow misunderstand that i am saying they are or not already i am not i am just saying they should if they are not).
Good because its obvious you have no clue what reading comprehension is and i’d rather not argue with someone who doesnt even know what people are talking about.
Too true.
I WANT to play Affy, but SPriest is just so superior in the same role it’s almost trolling to do so.
Also, the synergy between PI and the new hotness, Augvoker, is just bonkers. SPriest is now even more meta as a result, which I didn’t think possible.
i think the idea was that DB was suppose to compensate for it however at this point i don’t know if its an affliction problem or the things at the top are simply too strong.
Something to also keep in mind is very much “if you’re not first, you’re last.” Spriest, Mage, and Evoker are all really good and while that doesn’t matter until you get to the higher keys, it does trickle down into lower ranks as well. Even if you’re not “bad”, if you’re not in the top 3-4 DPS specs for M+, it’s not going to go well for you.
some warrior with 445 ilvl was pulling 300k+
and my 444 lil warlock was pulling 225k
with aug ofc.
skill issues? sure, but that’s 10-20k difference not 75k difference. I have to push really hard when I am playing with my lock.
I am playing with my warrior, cutting like a butter.
My rogue feels the same.
And there are specific trinkets you must have them, ie nelth trinket for demo, if you don’t have it don’t expect much as an average player.
blizzard are retarded, the poor warlock are usless now
If you arent a guardian druid, a holy paladin, a fire mage, a shadowpriest and augmentation evoker no invite, simple as that, blizzard killed M+ for the rest of the specs.
This thread is a little silly. Just form your own groups. M+ is so generous in the fact it’s some of the only content where you have true agency over getting a group together to play with.
No one can gatekeep you from your own group.
Arnt you an artist of saying all the right things and ignoring facts.
Another “run your own key” Blizzard apologist.
Or…I dunno…maybe they could be the professionals we pay them to be and balance the specs?
I mean I CAN make my own dinner, but eating out every once in a while is really nice too. If you ain’t meta, you’re cooking dinner every single night…and still paying the same amount.
Would love to see what content your in to see these numbers overall. If it is 1 pull then that means nothing over a entire dungeon.
Aff is insane for raids atm and it might not be crazy strong for mythic+ but it is still really good damage atm, especially on boss week.