I keep saying that I’m perfectly willing to have the Alliance take responsibility for the Blood Elf thing if the Horde takes responsibility for betraying the last Alliance forces in Lordaeron in TFT for the sake of a land grab.
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Oh, so it’s actually YOU who wants to make it about Uncle Gary? Ok.
I don’t even know who you are. What’s with two low postcount low-level alts appearing today on the story forums to argue with me
And he accuses me or projection.
Im not trying to insult your intelligence. You have a very good recollection of the lore. I presume I’m just not the best at communicating my take, and I actually value your take as a foil to my own preferred perspective.
That said, I think my humorous rewording is not the opposite of what happened. Exaggerated and cartoonish, yes, but not the opposite. Garithos was not going to help the Forsaken unless they agreed to give him 100% of the land, revoking any claim they might have for that land. He wanted those lands, which meant even if they claimed Lordaeron without him, he would be an enemy.
Sylvanas was cunning. This is a trait that can be celebrated in many cultures, but typically not for females. Female cunning is snake-like. Spider-like. Male cunning is clever like a fox. Jacob double crosses his brother Esau and decieves his father Isaac, and Esau is condemned for selling his birthright for a bowl of soup. Jacob tricks his uncle (who never intended to let Jacob leave his service) and ends up leaving with a massive herd of piebald sheep and a bunch of treasure including his uncle’s idol and both his daughters. He is celebrated for his cunning. (God helped him grow his herd while reducing Labans because Laban wasnt dealing with Jacob fairly and would never give Jacob what he wanted, but we still celebrate Jacob for his shrewd cunning.) Samson likewise is celebrated for his cunning as well as his strength. Jael is celebrated for her cunning in assassinating Sissera, and shes a female, but foreign females like Delilah and Jezebel are demonized for it. Their femaleness is almost cited as a reason why their cunning is evil and other cunning characters are not. Its an ancient warning about the dangers of foreign women, to keep young men shopping local, but its also a trope that makes it into modern fiction… and thats part of how we categorize Sylvanas. Its a tool for showing us how cold and dangerous Sylvanas is, even when cunning is used to show how wise Varian is.
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Don’t know how sb can pretend he doesn’t care about Garithos and 2 posts later he wants to make a trade deal about hurt feelings.
I’ve been waiting on “these people” that know to surface for years. Where are “these people” that have declared the Forsaken the enemy because of a deal gone bad?
If you could point me to the quest that shows Kristoff or Shaw sharing this information with anyone that would be awesome.
That would at least be a start in claiming that the Alliance was soooo mad when they were told of the deal gone sour.
Let me answer that for you. You can not show me when that occurred, just like other plot holes other posters are filling that you’re soooo against.
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Except the crux of the argument requires a whole host of assumptions made by the anti-assumptions poster. It requires assuming:
Shaw knew the full account of Garithos’s death, including the events leading up to it.
Shaw knew this shortly after it happened.
Shaw told this to Varian (the only reasonable assumption thus far).
Varian (or whomever) killed the diplomats solely because of Garithos.
All that assumed because 15 years after the fact, Shaw said he knew what happened to Garithos, and was fine with it.
Which would be very weird since nobody else ever in Azeroth’s history brought it all up as a reason to hate the Forsaken.
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Trade deal? Huh? Logical consistency isn’t a trade deal.
Maybe the Alliance assumed the Scourge killed Garithos.
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I’m not even sure back then Blood elves were supposed to join the Horde. There’s no need to “claim responsibility, unless faction x does y”. The Blood elves were their own story.
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How exactly do you intend to have a coherent discussion of the lore when you also propose that anyone should be able to just “fill in the plot holes” with whatever they want and use that as the basis for the discussion?
Do you even think that there’s a shared canonical reality that can be agreed on or is this entire forum just about headcanon wars?
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Maybe Shaw found out later.
Then again, as I mentioned if we are not allowed to say it was the initial events concerning Garithos that cause the Alliance to hate the Forsaken then neither is this entire emmisary business.
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If we’re to assume the Forsaken Ambassadors died because they were too dumb to figure out the walk from Lordaeron to SW was a perilous one than yeah.
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It requires none of those if you look at it as a omniscient fan. The fact remains humans require none of those assumptions you listed to attack an undead on sight based on what they experienced with the Scourge.
One was from Stormwind lolz.
He still had living family there.
Whenever a human wanders into the Plaguelands and dies the Alliance should just assume that the Forsaken killed and ate them because who else could it have been
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Maybe the Alliance assumed the Forsaken were Scourge? No way… that’s kind of a reach huh?
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Out of curiosity, anything about Dark Rangers, night elf dark rangers and Delaryn.
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