Warcraft: Sylvanas spoilers

If you’re part of the Venthry convenant sure. But none of the Ardenweald soulbinds are monsters.

That’s distinctly a Revendreth problem :stuck_out_tongue:

Maldraxxus would have a word.

Edit:

Seriously whats up with that? Why arent any of my death realm fae friends actually eldritch horrors making deals for firstborn mortals?

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True. But not everyone in Maldraxxus is a bad person though. There are noble warrior souls there :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously, Emeni and Vashj are my homies.

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Emeni, and Plague Master Merilith are my two favs from there :wolf:

Idk what this means but so far it seems the sentiment is as long as Sylvanas feels sorry then everyone can suck it because feeling bad is the linchpin of eternal damnation or salvation.

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Not even. Time literally heals the wounds. Like I said, Vashj is my homie, now.

How wonderful for you timmy

I liked the blog post.

And this explains it.
It is combination of Tropes called Fanon Discontinuity and Broad Strokes to Canon.
Zerde is trying to edit out the unwanted part of Arthas’ lore, and trying to switch the fates of Sylvanas and Arthas, and hide it by trying to link it with a valid lore fact.
I think we need to stop entertaining this trap-like debate.

IMO I thought that was BfA, especially the Night Warrior schtick.
I mean is there really a greater waste of power, characterization, and potential than that? Excluding Malfurion?

What if they do actually seem that way to other lifeforms throughout the universe, I mean different creatures can have different standards, and points of view, right? I mean, One person’s trash, is another person’s treasure, and all that right?

What it means, is that no one really cares what anyone else wants, or thinks is fair, only what they themselves want, and think is fair.

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Actually, if the covenants do persist in some way, I hope it is in the form of whatever covenant you had active, your soulbind comes to collect on the fine print in an expansion or two.

My point is just that relying on outcomes from different timelines is silly (and debating the extent of free will is a philosophical nightmare that is ongoing so have fun).

Yes, in a different timeline events unfold differently. But the question then becomes what’s different in that timeline - as a whole - not just as it pertains to a single outcome. A different timeline means maybe Arthas’ family line isn’t quite the same. Maybe Arthas’ genes change and he doesn’t end up with so many double recessive traits. Maybe the synapses firing in his brain trigger differently.

Because at a certain point, all of these things make up the entirety of our circumstances. They shape our experiences and our decision making. Unfortunately that line of thought removes all autonomy from the individual.

Unless you believe in a finite number of timelines, then every possible scenario involving Arthas exists, at which point theoretically you can divide every action taken by the infinite number of changes between each universe.

That basically boils every action down to a long chain of causal events from the beginning of existence in a given universe, until the moment of a particular decision (which - in a massive amount of universes - will never even arrive, since Arthas won’t even be born).

Simplicity provides a loop hole though. Because - in short - Arthas did indeed undertake those actions. No action occurs in a vacuum, but unless individual responsibility is non-existent, choices do exist outside of circumstances.

Evaluating information is an almost instant process where your subconscious takes input and compares it to things it can relate, assesses outcomes, and delivers signals. The comparisons are based on experiences, information, mental faculties, and a few other things. So yes, having Arthas stung by a bee as a child near Stratholme, could change a choice he makes at Stratholme. But circumstances create every aspect of our make up, so that argument struggles to accept the concept of free will (and even goes so far as to accept the notion with perfect information we could predict all actions).

Circumstances can constrain our choices - and in that way they are far more powerful in shaping our decisions. I cannot choose to become a deity right now, for instance. Arthas could not make the choice to spontaneously combust into candy. I’ll gladly accept that they are far more controlling of our choices when considering constraints.

But I’m going to have a hard time understanding how to reconcile the role circumstances in their entirety play without completely stripping an individual of free will.

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Which we now have the crown of wills to counter.

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Or … it can be used to dominate every soul that enters the Shadowlands, creating an army of dominated souls to assault every other cosmic force! The true villain of Shadowlands has been hiding in plain sight this whole time! PELAGOS! That’s why Pelagos couldn’t ascend. Maybe a Dreadlord? Definitely evil.

Wait. I can do better.

Or … it can be used to dominate the Arbiter … into funneling all the souls to Maldraxxus where the true villain of Shadowlands, the Primus, can use the army to assault the other cosmic forces.

Or … it’s a symbol of Blizzard deciding to shatter their past legacy and rebuild the icy helmet of the Lich King, associated with heinous activities at the company, into a golden shiny crown to demonstrate a move toward a positive bright future.

Or … it’s a random macguffin and we’ll never hear about it again. It’s a broken piece of scrap metal serving (basically) no purpose.

No I am not. Arthas committed heinous acts. No one denies that, but so did Sylvanas(in some cases worse then him considering all those obliterated souls). The idea that somehow he was irredeemable while Sylvanas was always an idiotic. Honestly, something tells me if he was forced to go to Revendreth he could potentially have changed.

The reason I brought that is because people have said Arthas(and Garrosh, fine) are irredeemable, and yet had circumstances been different there was always a chance they could have been redeemed. Therefore, not actually irredeemable.

Maybe that is actually the point. Warcraft has said we are all stuck in some cycle. A cycle no one seems to truly be able to break. And if so, how culpable are any one in the Warcraft universe truly is if this cycle was near unbreakable?

This is something I have thought about for a while. That if we really want to find someone to truly blame we can always just blame the Void Lords. Because every awful thing that has happened to Azeroth and the universe thus far can be directly attributed to them.

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The explanation is feelings.
If you feel bad than its ok.

Its BS in here and real life. Why does someone’s feeling matter? Just throw the book at them and bury them under the jail.

I guess its a different philosophy.

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He used Frostmourne to send every single soul he took to the jailer. It’s literally the same crime they both committed. The only difference is, he did it for power and fought against the Jailer. She did it because she was manipulated into believing she was saving everyone.

Do you not realize every. Single. Person. Arthas killed fed the Jailer?

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Was that mentioned in the book. Because what we saw was all the souls he killed were absorbed by Frostmorne and not sent to the Jailer.(not that was a better fate but still)

The Jailer literally created Frostmourne to empower himself. Did you miss all the Shadowlands lore? All souls consumed by Frostmourne went straight to the Jailer. Heroes from the Third War.

He had souls of the famous people Arthas killed in a secret vault.

But you yourself said Arthas broke free, so why would Arthas empower the Jailer and not just use Frostmorne to empower himself?

And we saw Uther go to Bastion. seems to me not ever soul was going to the Jailer. At best just a portion of it.