In the Sylvanas book, I think the writer was trying to write it in Sylvanas’s voice. And she criticized the Celestials.
I don’t know how to feel about that. I am conflicted.
For one thing, Golden is writing Sylvanas as a loon. So she makes the loon criticize the Celestials judgement.
And I agree with the loon.
Like… Golden wrote War Crimes with direction from Blizz. And that was a horrible book. The Celestials Judgement was disgusting.
Then she writes Sylvanas having a spot on critique - but as a mad banshee.
I don’t know if that was almost a 4th wall breaking moment, or maybe I was too loaded with my own baggage? But I thought it was a funny moment. I agree with Golden’s portrayal of a Mad Woman that was critiquing Golden’s previous work.
What did the Celestials know to make such judgements? What were they hiding?
(the lore likely is written as they go. But I liked that the inconsistency was acknowledged)
This is actually what I bring up about blizzard trying to present a victim as crazy, like Tyrande, so they can dismiss their valid grievances. Even if Tyrande is right to be angry, they want to present it in a way that says “oh she’s just a crazy woman, we need to ignore her or kill her off”.
Like in 8.2.5 when Anduin say when you ask him where Tyrande is he says “I fear vengeance has consumed her”, then in 8.3 when she comes in to yell at Anduin and they play ominous music. Or again during her judgement when they try to make Tyrande sound crazy despite her showing insane mercy to sylvanas, you can see how people react to this in general and see Tyrande as the bad guy and think she is “evil” (I had linked a bunch of the wowhead comments when that came out). This presentation to make people who don’t pay attention think this way is entirely intentional and they do it to victims all the time.
I have preconceived notions of the author and the company, and I am likely right… I often am…
But still…
Maybe I see something I want to see. But It almost looks like acknowledgement and contrition. Of some wrongs, if not all. I see Blizzard acknowledging a lot of wrongs, which is something. Even if they are not solved in a snap.
I often said it seemed Blizzard lumps all their sins on Sylvanas. It seems more and more true.
I think Blizzard only even acknowledge any wrongs only because they were caught, then they do a little pandering so people forget and move on, like all businesses that get caught doing these kinds of things, they don’t out it on their own, the public needs to find out some other way then they apologize, so it all rings hollow to me.
That aside, I think you do kind of have to look at the stories from a more meta perspective as in who is writing what and when. It’s like if a bunch of sexists were writing the story and directing Golden to write a story this way, the story will have a certain tone in that “victims need to forgive or they are crazy”, a tone that has been throughout wow and a lot of people even realize that subconsciously.
Just like people thinking Tyrande was going to be a raid boss from how they presented her in 8.2.5 or 8.3, because that is how blizzard has written the story for a long time, it’s just kind of expected she would be a raid boss. So I think looking at it beyond just the story and a more meta perspective of what is happening at the time is a better way to view the wow story as it changes hands. This isn’t just one book written by someone with a singular vision.
While I am being sarcastic, there are times, given the revelations the lawsuits have brought to light, that I visualize that Danuser and Golden have been replaced by Defense Lawyers writing fanfics when I think about this topic.
I honestly think the writers aren’t self-aware of what they are writing with what is going on. The no negativity in the dojo mentality.
Just putting on my conspiracy hat on but what if these people when hearing the story develop in those writing rooms where the story was leading toward the victim getting a resolution and the villain was supposed to bear the guilt and blame.
They said to themselves “nah this doesn’t look right… no wait SHE is the problem!”
I stopped paying attention to this thread a couple days ago and have caught up since my previous post… seems like I checked out before the heavy posts came in. What a pile of malarkey. Frustrating.
Arthas tore apart not 1 but 2 different nations and killed the majority of their inhabitants, Sylvanas did not.
You do realize she is nowhere even close to being the first, or last to do that, right?
One of our allies in Revendreth murdered her whole world. The Legion holds the highest body count in the universe, and Arthas still surpasses Sylvanas in those numbers as well. Most of Sylvanas’ forces came from what Arthas created first. Hell we PCs might actually also surpass her body count as well.
So I’ll keep my double digit IQ, compared to your single digit.
Yeah, sometimes I do feel, even if it’s not true, they are writing the story in a way to excuse their own actions, even if it doesn’t really make sense within the story. But then it’s probably more the idea of they don’t fully grasp what they’re writing about and think a few smiling characters can make everything work out in the end. Sure in fiction you can do anything you want and have it work out, but what is the reader getting out of that?
I like to use the example of Anudin in War Crimes, where he essentially spends most of his time in the book trying to talk to and understand Garrosh, while dismissing Jaina outright until she finds peace herself, a person who was very close to him and taught him a lot, a person whose ideals are now core to his character. It made me wonder if Anduin is intentionally being written as a character that takes his allies/friends for granted while caring too much for his enemies. I thought this would be a flaw they gave him because he was too young and inexperienced as a leader, or maybe it was vanity where he wants everyone to love him, and the people who do love him are essentially just tools.
Then you see how he treats Tyrande in 8.1 and believes she’s already “lost to vengeance” in 8.2.5 while he gives a eulogy for the person who planned the attack on the night elves as well as participated in several other genocides prior to that. Even how he snaps at Genn for yelling at Sylvanas at the battle of undercity, who is justifiably angry for what Sylvanas did. And now he’s sticking around in shadowlands (presumably) to hang out with Sylvanas in the maw instead of going back to try to help the night elves or even the people of westfall.
I think this character flaw is something they accidentally instead of intentionally stuck him with while they were/are trying to use him as their mouthpiece of morality.
Revendreth seems to hold some really ridiculously bad folks. Like, truly awful.
Yet, according to Pelagos (and if I recall correctly, some other stories) some souls were judged to be sent straight to the Maw (Pelagos is going to stop that).
Who got that treatment? What did they have to do? I vaguely recall some line about them being a “threat to the Shadowlands” (whatever that means) but beyond that I’ve got nothing.
I understand that in Revendreth, if souls didn’t work toward … penance (for lack of a better word) they’d eventually be cast into the Maw.
But straight there? I’m not even sure I can fathom what it would take.
The only thing I can think of is that it wasn’t about the evil perpetrated, but whether the Arbiter could see any glimmer of redeemable quality, but conceptually that really doesn’t sit well (for me).
Or people are reading the…less than stellar reviews for the book by the people who own it and are simply opting to not buy it. That’s a possibility too.
