I’ll rep my server and ask for the passage regarding the love scene.
I am pretty close to done with the audio book, and it isn’t that bad. I think alot of the spoilers shared here might be slightly colored by opinion and humor, as is generally par for the course. But the lore facts and lore details discussed seemed generally spot on.
Folks who read the book before it was even released have already covered most stuff, so I won’t rehash it all. But I do want to say :
If people didn’t make such a big deal about the lava eel thing, I may not have given it a second thought. I guess at its worst, it does seem a bit superfluous. The scene could have been replaced with a lore heavy call back or something relatable that would be of interest to fans. Or the scene could be removed entirely. It contributes almost nothing and seems out of place. But it isn’t as offensive to me as it seems to be to everyone else. Maybe I am missing some pop culture reference about lava eels?
And
Call me corny, but I enjoyed the small details and world building. How she chose her ambassadors. How they used “training dummies” as part of the story. How the Horde leaders traveled to Silvermoon. The people and places and activities of the game being mentioned.
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Nobody’s saying lava eels are offensive. We’re saying it’s ridiculous.
The offense you might be seeing is that it could have been something meaningful and impactful.
Instead it’s cannibalistic lava eel lost love.
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What the hell do you mean ‘probably’, nothing Arthas has done comes close to what Sylvanas did. She willingly and knowingly killed innocents and sent them to superhell to be tortured and permanently obliterated, and conspired with a big bad to have all dead souls across the UNIVERSE suffer the same fate. Arthas is small potatos in comparison and anyone who doesn’t see this is almost guaranteed to have a double digit IQ.
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There is a short story with Nobondo where it’s made explicit the Orcs who invaded Shattrath raped the female Draenei prisoners then beheaded them and tossed their corpses hundreds of feet below onto the ground.
Honestly, this is where I struggle.
Because there is a fair amount of nuance in Sylvanas (and Arthas). But they’re usually written with the subtlety of a brick to the forehead. Part of that is the setting – this cartoony game with A GIANT BOAR isn’t always the best place for a discussion of where moral culpability begins and one’s circumstances end. And most of the passages I’ve read quoted here seem more like a bit of extra mustache twirling in case we couldn’t figure out who the bad guy is in a fairly… cheap way. There’s a reason “I have you now, my proud beauty!” is a mainstay. And it’s not because it’s doing the intellectual labor.
I’ve said it before, but one of the things that surprised me about this book is how little it surprised us. It’s mostly things we knew.
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You don’t believe she can, so you must also be a biased hypocrit.
Arthas has dropped fome phat beats in his life. Definitely spit some bars too.
I’ll agree Arthas is a rappist.
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Can she undo, and I mean truely undo what she’s done? No, then she can’t be redeemed. Yes? Then why hasn’t she?
And let’s be honest, if Arthas is beyond redemption then Sylvanas is DEFINATELY beyond redemption and if Arthas wasn’t beyond redemption but got unjustly punished then you know what? I’m fine with that happening to sylvanas aswell.
Maybe, but he isn’t a raper (let’s see if that gets through the word filter. Also can someone explain to me why the word rape is allowed but ra-pist isn’t?
Can Arthas, whom you think can be redeemed?
No.
Biased hypocrit.
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I don’t think he can be redeemed actually and if I did say that then it was an accident and I take it back, but Arthas hasn’t permanently obliterated souls as far as I know whereas Sylvanas has. So Arthas should definately be punished but it shouldn’t be anywhere as bad as Sylvanas’s should be.
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You did say it. A couple times. So, definitely a biased hypocrit. Especially when you’re suddenly changing your opinion to save face.
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Paladin Arthas in WC3 was not any of the things he is now, but I’m not sure what anyone expects after Team Revisionism has their way. Frankly, I’m surprised they haven’t released another retcon-novel that demonstrates he was a sociopathic sexual abuser from early childhood because Terenas never hugged him or something.
The thing about the whole “golden one”, fall from grace, Paladin twisted reflection Death Knight transformation, is it doesn’t really work if the subject was a terrible person to begin with.
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But he was a terrible person to begin with.
I don’t know how anyone can read the already existing Arthas novel and walk away with any impression besides that he was a spoiled, arrogant rich kid. He never had Lordaeron’s best interests in his actions, only ever his.
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That novel is itself a retcon is my point.
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I disagree. Even in WC3 he was constantly tossing out all of his mentor’s ideas and never listening to reason. Uther suggests finding another way at Stratholme and Arthas’s immediate reaction is to strip him of his job. Muradin tells him “hey maybe don’t pick up the evil sword” and when Arthas does so, he doesn’t even give his (seemingly) dead friend a second glance. He isolates his soldiers by burning their ships himself. All of this was before he became a death knight.
Arthas was never a good person, even just looking at WC3 and nothing else.
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I liked it. I see a lot of undeserved negativity earlier in this thread, not sure what that’s about, maybe just residual “I hate Blizzard!” energy.
I’m good with Sylvanas and Anduin taking a break from the story for a while. I’m happy with where Sylvanas is. The door is open for her to return to the Forsaken and the Horde someday which is more than I could have hoped for the last several years.
The next battle is for the heart and soul of the Forsaken vs. Calia Menethil’s corruption, and man am I ready for that fight.
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Arthas’ sin was pride. He begins the game at his zenith and we watch him descend, mission after mission, into increasingly questionable methods to achieve victory. Even later as he’s taking up Frostmourne, his justification for all of this is sparing Lordaeron from the threat of the Scourge. He is just a fantasy retread of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader/inversion of the Chosen One trope. To put it another way: if there was never grace, there cannot be a fall from grace.
That, and I really really really do not think hidden subtext of predation (especially of a sexual nature) as an integral part of Arthas was even in Metzen’s wheelhouse. I think it more likely the worst you can say about WC3 era writing or characterization is it was relatively shallow and leaned a lot on male power fantasy themes (lots of musclebound brutes and awkward, low-poly, ample bosoms).
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If there had been no scourge and Arthas had come to the Throne in a traditional fashion, I believe he would have taken his fathers ideas to build an alliance to heart, but rather than rebuilding the ‘Alliance’ he would have tried to forge an Empire with Lordaeron at its centre. Thats the kind of person he was in my opinion.
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Ok, show me a post I said that he could be redeemed, that isn’t me saying he’s more worthy of redemption then Sylvanas(cause he is).
Ikaar.
You already know you’ve said it. It’s why you included your disclaimer. Know why I don’t have to say “and if I ever said Arthas deserved the Maw instead of Revendreth, I’m sorry”? Because I know I never said it. I know I never would have reason to say it. Therefore, I’d never need to try and weasel my way out of such a past statement.
People only try to weasel their way out of things they know they’ve said or have very good reason to believe they’ve said. Asking someone to go through your entire post history is an easy bluff. You know the search function makes it very hard to find in short order, and nobody really wants to put that much effort to remind you of things you’ve said.
Face it; you are what you accuse others of being. You call them biased hypocrits for not seeing things your way, thus making yourself out to be a biased hypocrit for thinking opinions can only be right if they are your own.
Accept your biasedf hypocricy. Or like, deny it as you do with everything that contradicts your preferred delusion.
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