It is probably a factor into why Thrall refuses to be warchief any more, yes.
He still leads the Orcs as central figure. And he appointed weaklings to lead the clans who aren’t dead. There won’t be a walk back from the suffering for as long as his legacy continues.
i´m pretty sure the orcs would have florished in Un’goro and would have the possibility to “redeem” themselve aswell there^^
Er, I just looked at the Horde side version of liberating the smart Gorillas, as I’ve never done it myself as I refuse to the Horde BfA quests beyond those for the Vulpera. But the Horde version wasn’t so altruistic, as it was actually about helping Goblins figure out a way to take their Kaja’mite.
If it helps, I strongly suspect we’re dealing with a change in writer here. Like, the writer(s) who wrote the original Yrel storyline moved on, and then someone else came along later and decided to repurpose her. Several characters showed that kind of disconnect around the time of BfA, though Yrel would be the clearest example.
You’ve probably heard this by now, but it was changed at the last minute from a quillboar attack to a Horde attack because quillboar weren’t considered cool enough. Despite being the main antagonist for the southern part of the zone.
Nope, they are explicitly Bilgewater goblins. Horde goblins. (grumble.)
The way I remember it, it was more like a win-win situation. The gorillas get their peaceful life, the goblins get their Kaja’mite, everybody’s happy, and nobody gets hurt. But then apparently the goblins decide they want to start murdering the gorillas too (but only for Alliance benefit)?
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- Thank you chump! I mean chum.
There’s enough kaja’mite there to get us started. Too bad about all the talking gorillas in the way.
- These Zandalari won't go near Gorilla Gorge. All because they're afraid! It's just a few talking gorillas. And one 'big mon' in particular as the Zandalari call him. All we need to do is take out King Da'ka and the villagers will probably throw us a parade! Or at least let us mine that kaja'mite. Think you can handle one big gorilla, chum?
Good. One less mook to deal with. That kaja’mite is as good as ours!
And the Gorilla leader thanked us. This was yet another pointless villain batting to make the Horde look worse then they actually were since the sentinent apes were allied to the village nearby.
“The orcs’ security came above all else. There would be no negotiation until the Alliance understood that. Garrosh would not stop. His people would never dwindle, not again. The Horde would never fall.”
And he was proven right. The Alliance sits once again in their fortresses all over Horde territory and makes no moves to retreat back to Stormwind. Only their total destruction is the right answer to this threat. Humans and Night elves alike.
Right, the one goblin questgiver wasn’t being altruistic. But as the PC actually playing the quests, you can see that it’s what the gorillas want too (and IIRC, you make contact with them first, or at least you can). Like I said, win-win.
And even the goblin questgiver was purely focused on kaja’mite, not on gorilla poaching!
I have to note that this reasoning got muddied and exaggerated over time. The very, very first reason given for why orcs settled in Durotar was that it reminded them of their homeland. That was later changed to the idea that Thrall wanted them to be forced to concentrate on building a life for themselves so that they wouldn’t have spare time to get into mischief. It was going to be hard, but doable—and things got worse in Durotar after the orcs settled there, due in no small part to Daelin Proudmoore deforesting the place. Then by the time of the story Amadis quoted, it’s been turned into “Living here was always supposed to be a punishment and nothing else!”
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“Too bad about all the talking gorillas in the way” and “One less mook to deal with” are plausible set up lines for the Goblins coming in later to get rid of the Gorillas. As you said, it was the Goblins, not the Horde player, who was poaching them.
And Thrall’s advisor Burx in Cycle of Hatred that made deals with the Burning Blade to cause even more deforestation and trying to frame the Alliance for it to reignite war between the two factions.
Maybe, but at best that comes under “several chapters missing from this story.”
And seriously, what’s the narrative point of having your allies go and be evil without your knowledge anyway? It’s kind of like Alliance players hearing that Sky Admiral Rogers has been roasting tauren calves for barbecue in Horde questing and then saying it’s narratively justified because they’re Horde and she hates the Horde.
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It is complicated, because Horde and Alliance get the exact same quest from the nice Gorilla leader:
I wouldn’t say go evil, as Gallywix and his influence on the Goblins was never good in the first place.
Rank-and-file Horde goblins have never gone off and gratuitously slaughtered NPCs we helped before, to the best of my knowledge. (This may be filed under “drunk on the villain bat.”)
I get that you, as an Alliance player, find it easy to accept. But the Horde player is really not set up to expect this development.
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I can’t think of many examples of Horde players questing with the Bilgewater at all after Azshara and before BfA? Closest I can think of is the Bilgewater bringing large support to Garrosh’s Dominance Offensive in Pandaria.
- The contractee (herein after referred to as “you”) agrees to execute any and all orders dispatched by the Warchief or his officers. These orders are to be followed to the letter with the following caveats: No interruption of profit to and for the Trade Prince Gallywix, herein after referred to as “me”.
Any orders issued from me or my officers are to take priority over any other Horde command. Failure to comply will result in lawsuit and non-payment. By reading this you agree that your life is collateral for this contractual arrangement and all properties there within.
Additional exceptions include Horde orders that may result in the collapse of Horde financial infrastructure. Do not let the Horde bankrupt itself in this war! I have salvage rights on all Alliance war machines and I intend to collect. Any actions that lead to the bankrupting of Garrosh and his forces (even if he gives the order himself, which he probably will) shall result in immediate transfer of the Warchief’s debt to you and anyone you’ve ever met that might help cover that debt.
The ink of this parchment acts as a legal binding agent and you are now subject to all laws and… Well let’s face it. You back out of this I’ll have my bruisers on you faster than a Blood Elf on a corrupted power source.
But see my point above about Admiral Rogers. If your allies are secretly going off and going off the deep end/undoing all the good you just did in your questing, that’s important information that should be given to the player.
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Oddly enough, Horde players not being informed was more in line with how things were presented to Horde players before BfA. For example, the Alliance leveling questing in Ashenvale takes place in time after the Horde leveling questing in Ashenvale, and Alliance side is basically undoing everything the Horde player did, but the Horde player is never informed.
But that’s the Alliance undoing things, i.e. the opposite faction. This would be like you questing alongside a group of, let’s say dwarves, where you help out a peaceful tribe of centaur so the dwarves can excavate a Titan ruin. Then later, you hear that Horde players have a quest to stop a bunch of “Explorer’s League dwarves” from slaughtering the same centaurs. When you left them, everything was peaceful, so you’d be scratching your head about what happened.
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I wouldn’t put it passed the Alliance NPCs in the Southern Barrens. The guy who took over was racist and genocidal.
The Goblin the Horde player quested for in Zandalar literally calls the player a chump. I likewise wouldn’t put it passes that Goblin to be playing the Horde player like a fiddle for profit.
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“Playing the PC for profit”—I totally believe he was after the kaja’mite.
There was zero indication that he was interested in slaughtering the gorillas for fur or whatever. Heck, if that was what he wanted and he thought I was such a chump, you’d think he’d have just paid me to do it.
Turning the goblins from kaja’mite profiteers to bloodthirsty gorilla poachers is just a gratuitous heel-turn for the benefit of Alliance questing.
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I don’t see it as a heel-turn. If the Goblins wanted to get rid if the Gorillas, and realized there was even more profit to be had after killing them, that would not be out of character for some Goblins.