I’ll acknowledge elephant in the room that is the current rolling Deep Wounds, and that it most likely should be addressed, but other than that, I think Ian Beckman’s “That’s The World of Warcraft That You Play” from 2006 still rings true for warriors:
“You might have incredible strength,
And you can probably pwn somebody’s face,
But you are worthless without a priest;
You are destined to raid for all your life.”
If that were the case, it would make 2 of you.
Please leave.
Good to know you are actually just a troll. If you can’t see the benefit of using better design for caster stats and resource generation then you aren’t here to argue in good faith. You are just being a contrarian with no actual arguments, and when the few recycled arguments you do make keep getting countered you resort to ad hominem or just disagreeing because you don’t like something no matter how illogical your position is. Welcome to the ignore list.
Nice counter argument, I’m shaking in my boots. Go level an Era warrior, then level a WotLK warrior, they play nearly identically until higher levels.
Pure casters are already insanely overtuned in the open world. Warlocks are even easier to level than hunters, and mages are so unbearably boring to level the normal way that
I know this wasn’t directed toward me, but my initial post in this thread quoted myself from three weeks ago where I acknowledged casters not being in a great state, but stating tying spell power to intellect would either have to be so minuscule it’s essentially worthless, as to not invalidate all existing gear that has spell power currently. If you check the post in full here, it breaks it down more thoroughly.
How would it invalidate gear?
Gear still has the same stat budget. Just make spirit give spellpower and the problem is solved.
Yeah I wasn’t directing that at you, it’s more complicated than “just add SP to Int” for sure, I was mainly saying they should’ve used a different expansion as the underpinnings of SoD to avoid these issues in the first place. Imagine the Cata client, with Wrath class design, set in the classic world and database. With a toggle for modern WoW graphics and models. That’s my ideal classic+.
First: Thank you for using the term “stat budget.” Zero sarcasm intended. It has been on the tip of my tongue for ages and I couldn’t think of the proper term.
To answer your question: I was speaking of tying spell power to intellect, not spirit. The OP stated this, and the person I was replying to stated this. I won’t weigh in on tying spell power to spirit - at least not at the current time - because I would have to go through quite a bit of existing gear to determine what the effects of mixing existing gear that has int, spirit, and spell power would be if spirit provided spell power. I’d rather not comment when I’m not currently very informed on that.
What I can say about it: It would, at the very least, make spirit-heavy or stam/spirit gear drops feel less bad if even some spirit could be converted to spell/healing power, since there would likely be someone who’d be willing to take it instead of it immediately going to the DE pile.
I wouldn’t tie it to int. Int is already a throughput stat. So if you tied spellpower to Int you’d essentially be creating a system where only one stat mattered at all and everyone would be stacking green “of intellect” gear.
Spirit, OTOH, does basically nothing for anyone in SoD because fights simply don’t last long enough for spirit to matter to anyone. It’s the perfect candidate to be linked to SP because it’s a currently useless stat that is on almost every single piece of caster gear.
For those saying casters were “fine” in classic, I don’t know if that’s categorically true. They did work, eventually, with enough buffs, flat damage changes, changes to itemization, etc. But if you were around way back when, you know the addition for +SP for example to gear was kind of an “admission of oopsie” from the development team.
So they work in same way a broken table is level because you’ve stacked a book underneath an uneven leg.
It’s categorically untrue. They were awful and were mostly brought as one ofs for particular buffs, to aid your 30 dps warriors. And to soak up gear.
I will acknowledge the game as it launched in 2004 - from what I can gleam from saved data - had absolutely horrid balance, and not just for casters, but all around the table. When I, specifically, use “Classic,” I refer to the 2019 version that’s based off 1.12, with all the revamping and mea cuplas that had come over two years; I use “vanilla” when speaking of the game in 2004-06. I didn’t clarify this when I should have, so apologies for any confusion.
For sure, but that’s in the hands of what is honestly very good players. Think of the average largely only getting whatever gear quests give them - they aren’t AOE leveling and they have half the stam and int that everyone else does. If you lowered base amounts I think people don’t fully appreciate
May I suggest a pure Classic WoW server if you don’t like changes? SOD isnt intended to be the vanilla experience.
So… Agility for Rogues, Hunters, and Ferals?
Rogues scale with weapon damage, strength, agility and AP .Hunters scale from weapon damage and attack power along with agility. Ferals scale with strength and agility. So you can’t even do sarcasm right.
A rogue pursuing Str is a dumb rogue…
Rogue gets the same AP from Agi as Str…
But it gets Dodge and Crit also from Agi… so it double dips on the benefits of Agi.
Str isn’t a waste by itself, but compared to Agi, it’s a waste.
Feral can do some Str as it gets 2AP for it… but Agi is still worth more due to crit.
Warriors and Shamans are the only melee that can’t just put everything into Agility and be fine.
So I see no issue with Int being both SP and Crit along with Mana pool. (Mana pool being the only actually limited resource.)
Strength is actually better right at this time for ferals as they don’t yet have the talent that gives extra combo points for crits. So raw AP is the best stat.
The point is that all these classes scale with multiple stats, and these are the stats that are most commonly on their gear.
Whereas casters only scale with spellpower, and intellect to a very minor extent. Yet most caster gear has zero spellpower, and lots of spirit, a stat which does approximately nothing for most specs, especially so when fights last under 1 minute.
Hence, I would like Int to be the double dip, and not Spirit.
Bad enough that Enhance SHamans have to go for both Str and Agi for damage, but to have to go for Int for mana and Spirit for spellpower would be just awful.
The point is that spirit wouldn’t be a double dip though, because it currently does absolutely nothing.
The entire stat is pointless in almost all of classic content.