Right… so why make us pursue Spirit as well? I would like to make my stat budget go further with double and triple dipping… not spread it out.
That’s why Enhance shamans suck so badly in Classic.
They need Strength/Agi for their Auto attack damage, but then also need Int and SP for their magic damage.
Adding spirit in there for SP would just make it MORE awful for them.
It’s not that you’ll be pursuing it…it’s that you are going to get it anyway. So why not make it do something?
I mean the entire point of this thread is that casters basically have no other options. Outside of BFD drops, nothing has spellpower on it. It’s all Int/Spirit until you start hitting level 50+
Because the Eagle is better than the Owl on anything other than a priest? Let it stay that way
At least this way you’d have a choice. Survivability or Damage? Which is a better choice than none at all.
Yeah, why should I have to make a choice when the rogue can just go “The Monkey” and get Damage AND survivability?
Why are you TRYING to gimp casters further?
Rogue can also choose “of the tiger” and get damage + damage. Or monkey and get dam + sv. Would be nice if casters could do the same.
Rogues gain a little bit of AP by going of the tiger, and actually lose crit and lose health.
That’s not the comparison you want.
Rogues get crit from stamina?
Of the tiger = Agi/Str
Of the monkey = Agi/Stam
They don’t need to have this relationship when melee can miss, be dodged, be parried, be blocked, and glance on white.
Spells can only be resisted and the threshold of being resisted is much lower on same, +1, +2 level mobs than it is for melee. To further illustrate, 6% hit and +5 weapon skill and you’ll still have more of your damage flat out avoided than a caster.
If they use the stat budget for str, they lose on either crit or health.
(agility) 10 Agi = 10 AP and 0.3% Crit
(monkey) 5 Agi/5Stam = 5 AP, 0.15 Crit and 50 Health
(Tiger) 5 Agi/5Str = 10 AP and 0.15 Crit
Of those three, Tiger is the least valuable.
Spirit should grant spell haste to all casters the same way int gives crit.
Ehhh. Either that or give us more access to sp power-- which they have been.
A human rogue in P6 in Classic that is in near-BiS, unbuffed but with enchants, is at about 1300 AP.
If you strip all the AP from the gear, you lose about 560 AP. If you also replace all enchants that give AP or strength with the best agility enchants possible for that slot, you lose about 75 more AP. You’re now down to about 665 AP; this is less than a BiS-geared rogue in P1.
If you want to take that P6 near-BiS geared rogue and add that 665 AP back to the gear as agility, this rogue - which has ~32.3% crit and ~31.6% dodge with 365 agility, and gets 1% crit per 29 agility, 1% dodge per 14.5 agility - that rogue is now sitting, unbuffed, with ~55.2% crit and ~77.5% dodge.
So, no; not even rogues or hunters go purely on agility. They require AP as well, just like casters need both int and SP.
I’ve already quoted myself as to why int giving SP is not a good idea with Classic’s stat design. If you want to bring up shamans, I’ve mentioned that as well in this thread. It’s by no means a solution, but both the OP and myself have come to the conclusion that trying to pump both melee and magic stats as a shaman - short of a rune being implemented that converts a portion of AP to SP - is absolutely horrible with Classic itemization.
Spell Power isn’t a stat in vanilla.
There’s Spell Damage and Spell Healing, and intelligence would need to impact both. Best that can be done is give you more gear which has both stats, which is what current BFD gear does.
No, that is not the best that can be done. The end raid of the phase shouldn’t be the only place that you can get gear upgrades for your class.
What could additionally be done, is to let spirit give casters spellpower.
Again, there is no Spell Power. The correct suggestion here is to let Intelligence give Spell Damage, and Spirit gives Spell Healing.
I like this, but it does kinda leave Resto Shamans (and maybe paladins) in the cold compared to Resto Druids and especially priests.
Resto Shams get very little out of Spirit since they don’t have through casting MP5 or bubbles/hots to throw on to allow a break for combat MP5 to kick in.
Resto Shams get very little out of Spirit since they don’t have through casting MP5 or /bubbles/hots to throw on to allow a break for combat MP5 to kick in.
As much as I am cosmically for INT/SPR to do more for a character’s output, I think in classic the ship has sort of sailed a little for a lot of reasons like this. Each class has different stat needs, but spell damage and spell healing are something we all have in common, it already exists, etc. I don’t think it’s the best solution that could have existed but within the framework of this largely feature-complete product I think it’s the “easiest” way to go.
If I could go back in time address this, I’d have probably just made INT add spell damage and healing, and give healing specs a healing stance that doubles their healing and reduces their spell damage by 50% or something. This would have been fairly good for the game for a bunch of reasons, it would have given healers a way to solo without respeccing and regearing, and would have made gear universally make characters better in a non-raid context just overall. A big problem I have with how gear works now is that some characters get better, and some characters get better in raid.
Right
But imagine if the shaman rune was making it so certain stats double up so they can be true hybrids.
Like Str gives SP or whatever additional scaling stat makes sense for their hybrid combination. It means if someone wanted to go tank/dps or dps/heals and vice versa they could do so without having to get as many sets of gear and their role versatility in a raid gives them additional value from fight to fight.
Especially if the number of healers/tanks you need fight to fight varies. Having a flex pick like this would bring a lot of value. Also as content gets easier they just swap the rune so they can do more damage.
I’m autistic and even I realize that most everyone saying “spell power” is using it interchangeably with “spell damage.” Are we really playing the semantics game? If so, lemme put “gear that reads ‘Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects’” and “gear that reads ‘Increases healing done by spells and effects’” into Notepad and keep it open to copy-paste whichever is being referred to at any given time instead of saying “spell power” and “healing power.”
Or, we can put on our big boy/girl pants and not insult the intelligence of each other when everyone knows what the intent is behind the verbiage. Especially when there have been two instances of the word “healing” mentioned prior to your splitting of hairs - one being Tirel being facetious about warriors on the “healing meters,” and the other being, lemme check…
…Me, saying “spell/healing power,” inferring that I’m fully aware these are two completely separate stats. The likely reason that nobody bothered to differentiate before you, 92 posts in, is that the OP, and everyone else, was talking about spell damage and caster DPS.
Or do you still have need to argue semantics about casters when warlocks, mages, and shadow priests were all explicitly mentioned, but “disc” and “holy” haven’t been posted in this thread whatsoever until the message I’m typing right now, and the term “resto” isn’t posted until the 97th post in this thread, after you’ve been anal about choice of language twice in a row?