Quick que content? Yeah you don’t pvp.
Might wanna do your research before you make a comment like that.
Do you feel I am a person being a hypocrite?
It more feels like you don’t understand the conversation. I don’t typically engage with you anymore because you are quick to support personal insults. So this should be no surprise.
There is a difference in wanting experience when engaging in balance of the content.
This is about wanting to create rules about people leaving keys and trolling them. Which in the context of the conversation happens more often at lower key levels. But wanting to put an experience requirement in talking about it which far outpaces where it happens.
There is a difference in wanting to discuss mythic raid balance with no mythic raid experience vs discussing things that happen in +5 keys while wanting +11 experience.
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Whether you push or do easy content is irrelevant.
If a key is not going to be timed above an 8 there is zero reason to stay in the group as most people are there for IO.
This sims it up pretty perfectly.
Not knocking Val as a player but claiming people need 3k to have an opinion on leaver’s is ludicrous.
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Harmful in what way? You’ve made a few replies to me, but in light of other things said in here, I wasn’t sure what to make of those posts… I see you’ve played with Justwipe.
“we” lol… You and I were talking about fallacies earlier, but moving on… Kiyoko also asked me for my academic credentials earlier, so I’m not sure you want to be roped into that level of “we.”
“declined to answer” – There is no constructive response when you treat your teammates the way you do.
Tldr: It’s pretty memorable when it happens…
I ran with a CE guild in Legion, and-- Maw of Souls, you know-- while boring they were really easy. It's one of those things you take for granted in the time... Took a break, came back in BFA, didnt want to go back to that schedule, so I pugged keys...
One day, I’m tanking WCM +7 on a bdk (my key), and I have “a Dwelknarr” healing me… We kill the first boss and he’s going bananas about how much damage I’m taking, how I’m “punching above where I belong” (hilarious as I was the highest rated bdk on the realm during the final patch of Legion). I decline to answer… Figured he’d stop after a while, but he just kept going-- And I mean non-stop until the end…
I quit end game shortly after that, and didn’t really do end game stuff again until current bf, here in DF, convinced me it would be fun.
In the context of what you’re quoting, one of them doesn’t play the game atm, and the other two are complaining about having to “carry” people in (potentially) +6s while neither of them even has full upgraded gear-- so idk who they could POSSIBLY be carrying, or who would expect them to carry ANYTHING.
Pointing this out is perfectly relevant as it’s just absurd.
Because it makes the game less enjoyable to play. Every game with a penalty for leaving does that (the mobas.)
If people can leave at will, there’s far less conflict. When it becomes overly punitive to leave, the frustration increases for everyone - for what purpose?
LFD /LFR has a penalty, but those penalties are to solve a specific problem.
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I think you mentioned LoL before, right? I haven’t played since season 2, but I always liked the concept of the Tribunal.
I understand the concern about increased frustration from penalties, but allowing players to leave at will can lead to frequent disruptions and a lack of accountability, which also frustrates those who are committed to completing the run.
Implementing fair penalties can encourage players to vet their groups properly and commit to the dungeon, fostering a more cooperative and consistent experience for everyone. The goal would be to find a balance where players are encouraged to stay and work through challenges together, rather than abandoning groups at the first sign of difficulty.
LOL doesn’t have the tribunal anymore. Now, they have leaverbuster and automated punishment logic and manual reports. If people have to leave for any reason, they are penalized.
The issue with this is forcing people to remain, doesn’t exactly lead to an enjoyable game experience. Sometimes, people are literally waiting out the clock (for surrender to be available.)
Implementing fair penalties can encourage players to vet their groups properly and commit to the dungeon, fostering a more cooperative and consistent experience for everyone. The goal would be to find a balance where players are encouraged to stay and work through challenges together, rather than abandoning groups at the first sign of difficulty.
Which is why I can be persuaded that group leaders should experience penalties if people leave for any reason. They are wasting the time for four players.
Something like a 1 hour cooldown as soon as instance starts. This only restricts their ability to make groups with LFG. It does not restrict the ability to join groups.
Group leaders who are tilted make subpar groups, so it’s also a way of protecting people from themselves.
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That’s a pity. Exacting justice myself vs letting the company do it was an appealing concept.
I appreciate your willingness to consider penalties, but penalizing group leaders alone might not be fair or effective. Group dynamics are influenced by all members, and issues can arise from anyone in the group, not just the leader.
A balanced approach could involve mild penalties for anyone who leaves repeatedly, encouraging everyone to be more committed and responsible. Additionally, providing tools and incentives for better group formation can help reduce frustration and improve overall experiences.
Back to arguing semantics, I see.
I will ask directly, what is the level of key I need to run in order to have an opinion on the subject?
I don’t even leave groups, which I’ve already told you previously. If this change had no collateral damage to it, I wouldn’t have continued to respond to you. It’s just the collateral damage that would be created by the change would have a significant impact on a lot of players being able to enjoy the game, myself included.
But sure, whatever you want to bring up to try to avoid answering questions.
So it’s not possible for me to carry other players in a 6 if I don’t have fully upgraded gear? I can’t possibly outperform the level required to complete a 6 unless I’m in a full set of 528 (or higher) gear? Or are we getting back to semantics and trying to define “carry” in a specific way?
The fact remains that if one player underperforms in the level of content the group is doing, one or more of the remaining players has to pick up the slack in order for the group to succeed. The actual number tied to that level is irrelevant to this statement; players can underperform in a normal dungeon, M0, M+4, M+24. And the only way for the group to succeed when that does happen is for at least one other player to overperform, otherwise the group is not going to complete the content.
Having the ability to leave creates more accountability on players to contribute adequately to their group. You continue to only want to look at this from the perspective of the player who is leaving, never what may have caused that player to leave in the first place. How is it better to compel a player that no longer wants to be in a group to stay when there is clearly someone that doesn’t belong in that level of content? Or is being overly toxic?
But content is designed such that failure is possible. it’s a misaligned expectations. Standard/beat timer usually operates under time or quit as the norm.
If penalties are to be issued, I would be fine with under the completion tag. (Also, people likely won’t use said tag, so Blizzard could see it as a waste of development time.)
I am going to address the heart of your post… Firstly, no one here HAS to reply to you. Second, based on what I have seen, I do not believe in your ability to perform as you have described. Third, this nonsense about “semantics” tempts me to reply in kind, but I have a feeling that’s the aim, so I am going back to the core issue and will discuss how we can improve the experience for everyone.
Scroll up to my reply to uncleruckus and click details, because that’s how I feel about you telling anyone they don’t belong in this game.
It’s true that failure is part of the challenge in Mythic+, and misaligned expectations can lead to frustration.
To address this, penalties could be tied to completing the dungeon, regardless of beating the timer, to encourage players to see it through. This way, the focus shifts from just beating the timer to working together and improving as a team, reducing the inclination to quit early and fostering a more supportive environment.
Majority of the players are not interested in just beating the dungeon.
Have you considered raiding instead?
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I cannot believe this thread is still going.
If I get in a key with a team that isn’t interrupting and we keep wiping because of it, I’m out.
the punishment belongs on the muppets not interrupting, not on me.
I’m also going to point out yet again that m+ was not designed for the pug experience. it was designed for organized groups*. if people would put a fraction of the effort into forming such a network of people as you do in arguing for punishments, there wouldn’t be a need for punishments.
*not saying you can’t pug it, obviously you can, but don’t be all surprised pikachu faced when things don’t go swimmingly.
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I am not certain about this…
That said, I understand that not everyone prioritizes just beating the dungeon, but the current system should support all playstyles, including those aiming for high performance.
As for raiding, five CE is enough for me in one life time.
But it cannot support all playstyles with a blanket penalty.
That’s a fair concern. Perhaps instead of a blanket penalty, a more nuanced system could be implemented, where penalties are only applied in cases of repeated leaving or disruptive behavior. This way, it can support diverse playstyles while still encouraging commitment and teamwork.
If someone joins an m+ key, and just leaves while gloating how the key is now bricked. (No actions taken). That is currently reportable under gameplay sabotage.
But if people wipe on the first pull… it shouldn’t qualify as gameplay sabotage.
As for if Blizzard will penalize… idk, but at least, it’s technically against the rules.
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You’re right that intentional sabotage is already reportable, and wiping on the first pull isn’t the same. However, the issue is frequent and repeated leaving, which disrupts the game for others. A nuanced penalty system that targets habitual leavers, rather than punishing all instances, could help reduce frustration and improve the overall experience without being overly punitive.