Wait, there's seriously no penalty for leaving a key?

Bricked keys are part of mplus. Leavers aren’t lol

Not as different as you seem to think.

To be fair, there is no barrier to entry on the forums, beyond paying your $15 a month, and being able to write in something that passes for English… While I understand your frustration, the rules dictate acceptance, for the moment. :slight_smile:

“Proverbial gun to my head” would imply a hostage situation… I think you already know my reply to that.

If you are not talking about malice, and/or the other players being drunk/stupid/etc, then you are talking about a genuine mistake. If that mistake results in the group missing the timer, especially at something like a +15, it is not a waste of time. It’s how the game is played.

Firstly, for a guy at 2.6k, that is hilariously arrogant to read. Second-- and I am going to be extremely polite here-- I would hold you accountable for rage quitting, yes.

It’s not circular logic, I just disagree with you from top to bottom; what constitutes “a waste of time,” team work, and-- how little you value people.

I don’t think a group like that would survive long enough to make it into the instance, let alone long enough for the key to be put in.

To be blunt, I don’t see you in a group with me, so you leaving is something I will never need to advocate for. But, considering everything you’ve written, I don’t see a downside if you are held accountable for your actions.

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If the group fails to meet whatever goals I had for joining, it doesn’t matter whether the mistakes that led to that failure were intentional or not. My time, which I have limited quantities of, was wasted either way. I would like to minimize the amount of time I have wasted in these situations. But your only answer to this is that I should have used IO better…

This isn’t about how good of a player I am. When I say “me”, feel free to place that with somebody who is 3.6K, and the point doesn’t change.

If I am in a key that’s appropriate for my skill level (whether that’s at 300 IO, 2.6K IO, or 5K IO), and there is one or more person who is playing below that skill level, I am carrying them. This can happen intentionally or by happenstance, intent doesn’t change the validity of this statement.

If I’m okay with carrying them, then cool. But if I’m not, I shouldn’t have to, especially in cases where the tools at my disposal showed they should be able to perform in that level of content. Yet you would have the system compel me to stay to carry them lest face a penalty if I choose that’s now how I want to spend my time; it’s my fault for having not done my due diligence to predict how the key was going to play out and I’m the jerk for dare suggesting I should be able to cut my losses.

Me getting a bad group being caused by me not using IO despite IO not being a perfect predictor of a bad group is a textbook definition of circular logic.

Are you ever going to acknowledge how little players that are over their head in content value the other players in their group?

Oh? You think there aren’t players that will keep their mouths shut during group formation only to start being toxic once the key has started? And in some cases they even wait until the group has spent 15+ minutes in the key to make it even more costly to those they are trolling. Or more to the point, there wouldn’t be a decently large amount of players that choose to do so when everyone is stuck in the group with them under your proposed system?

I am 100% okay with being held accountable for my action of leaving if I’m able to hold the other players in my group accountable for not pulling their own weight or being toxic. The problem for me isn’t with the penalty for leaving; it’s that leaving is oftentimes a symptom rather than a cause, and you have shown no desire to even remotely address the cause.

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Naturally. Expect little from people who so quickly jump to attack on character or capability, and also say bizarre things like follows

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Your experience is the common experience. People don’t leave good keys. You also can’t count keys past the reward cap cause we all know these break all the time.

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If the group is going well, no one leaves. If you have a lot of leavers in your keys, I’m guessing you need to pay better :person_shrugging:

Losing is a waste of you time, so you’re better off quitting. Got it.

In this particular instance, your score is important, because you are talking about people taking you hostage at “gun point,” and forcing you to carry them in +6s.

You and I have VERY different definitions as to what constitutes “bad.”

What if I told you that I identify as a little player, and I don’t like the way you’re talking right now? I will push as high as I want to push. It’s my key, and you have no right to tell me I don’t belong in MY key.

After everything you’ve written… Yes, I would hope a penalty system would deter you. I’d like to get a lot more specific and REALLY answer your question, but netiquette forbids it.

Frustration is easy to understand with a bit of patience, and quite easy to work with when it comes from a genuine place.

Leaving a key that is bricked isn’t rage quitting or losing your mind. If you are there for score, missing the timer means it is no longer worth continuing. If there is a stat for keys left there should be a stat for how often people leave keys you are in, maybe we can use it to identify the players who are pain points.

Ah yes, stripping off context to change the meaning of a statement to then respond to; what was that about strawman arguments we were talking about earlier?

Your system would have me trapped in a +6 the same way it might have a higher scored player trapped in a +16. The actual level isn’t relevant at all. If players cannot leave a key with underperformers or trolls lest face a penalty, that’s going to be worse for everybody than if those players are able to cut their losses earlier.

How do you define bad, then?

Ah, also arguing semantics. Priceless.

And the players that join keys they have no business being in are safe to continue to negatively impact any group that is unfortunate enough to have them as a teammate. If I’m on the hook for an unlimited amount of time for a key, and anyone can severely underperform or be toxic in the group, I just won’t PUG anymore. And I highly doubt I am alone in thinking that.

Dwelknarr is talking about telling people they don’t belong in a given key and then leaving. “Rage quit” is defined as to suddenly stop participating or engaging in (something) in a fit of anger. I would say that qualifies.

You defined anything that didn’t achieve “the goal” as “a waste of time,” and then indicated you would just leave. Your words not mine… And yes, I would call that “losing.”

No, because those players would have to actually time a +15 to get there. And let me put it to you this way, I would willingly join that group if they could clear +15s. lol

Don’t bait me. :laughing:

Oh, I don’t mean that metaphorically, figuratively or any other way… I mean, I have in those words you picked, had someone tell me just that once upon a time. So when I say I identify-- I mean I IDENTIFY. You’re the reason I quit doing m+ in BFA.

As much as it pains me, I am afraid I would be willing to make that trade.

Frustration is easy to understand.

However, the implication that a public space dedicated to open discussion may become less accepting? Less so.

You never considered that there should be a penalty for screwing up enough in a key that someone actually wants to leave instead of sticking it out and getting whatever rewards he wanted when he signed up?

And btw your key gets depleted because you failed to vet/ organize a group that was set up for success. If you want to not worry about that, be good enough that ppl invite you to THEIR keys without you having to wait a few hours queuing.

An environment where only favorable views are amplified and reinforced is not open to discussion. It’s an echo chamber.

Frustration is easy to understand there.

GD is many things. An echo chamber is not one of those things.

This is a place where the most mundane of things turns into an argument.

A frog that sits in water that eventually boils doesn’t notice.

Which is not a phrase applicable here, I am often in arguments. I’ve been arguing on and off with you, and neither of us have been reported, removed, or shouted out to the point of disembarking.

There are people on your and my side of the fence, and plenty of nuance aside. Try again.

You have more time on the forums than in-game and it’s not applicable here? You cant even tell the difference between an argument and a fight anymore.

A citation would be appreciated, as well. I know it to be categorically false.

A citation for what? You’re so used to being on the side that just shouts people down you can’t even reason anymore.