Void elves can look like blood elves but not vise versa

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Lore-herod

Even if that’s not what it actually is, that’s sort of what I would prefer Engineering become instead of an entire Tinker class.

Engineering, and alchemy, are both pale shadows to what it would take to make a proper Tinker class.

The Professions in WoW just aren’t enough to fullfill the desired fantasy of the tinkerer from WCIII and its extremely unlikely, given that the blizzard devs are culling professions, that they would revamp them in such a way.

After all this time if they were going to make Professions a secondary class system they would have by now. Imo.

@Lore-herod

My main issue is that there are so many different engineering/tinker themes from almost all the races. Not only do a lot of the playable races have different engineering/tinker themes, but so do many other races (Ethereals being my favorite). It’d be boring to just have a Tinker use either a Gnome or Goblin theme depending on the faction, and I doubt Blizzard would create themes for each race since that’s a bunch of work and would essentially usher in Class Skins.

The easy fix is to theme them for the races that have the class.

Much like druids or in part DH are themed to their races.

Tinker would likely be a “hero” class level type design so the extra work would be a valid thing I think.

Off the top of my head of races I think have a valid tinker theme available to them would be:
Gnomes, Mechagnomes, Goblins, Orcs, Mag’har, Dwarves, DID, Draenei and LFD.

And really I could see them expand that even more if they reallly wanted to go into it that hard. (Though I doubt that).

@Lore-herod

If it WERE to become its own class though, I would really hope technomancy was utilized in some of the abilities or made its own spec.

I imagine it would be.

The main specs I’ve always come up with involve a tank spec utilizing the mechsuit in full.

Taking hits and dishing out primarily melee type damage.

Meanwhile the Healing spec focus’ on the alchemical side of Tinkerer’s while also still utilizing turrets and a gun.

And a DPS spec primarily focus’ on bombs, turrets, and their gun.

GW2 Engineers are a good example of a tinker class type done rather well, though they don’t have a mech suit… (I can dream though.)

@Guzzle-barthilas

Imo what makes a tinker a tinker is the mech backpack/suit.

I mostly agree with that.

While in my examples above the Mech suit is mostly a facet of the tank spec I would want all three specs to have access. The Tank one just uses it a lot more… even all the time.

Maybe like a bear form. lol

Their other hall marks for me are turrets, guns, and Alchemical concoctions used in combat kinda like bombs.

@Magnificent-wyrmrest-accord

Thats not a bad spec naming setup actually. lol

I should probably note the Draenei would use their crystal tech in their designs and Orcs and DID would clearly use fire elementals in theirs.

Theres a lot you can do with Tinker, and aside from Necromancer which is my favorite concept, they are among my favorite class concepts around.

[Guzzle-barthilas]

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

Gnomes, Mechagnomes, Goblins, Orcs, Mag’har, Dwarves, DID, Draenei and LFD.

Imo the fact that the WC3 tinker was a goblin would make it weird for there to be like twice as many Alliance races for it.

I’d cut draenei and lfd. If you wanted to include archanotech like draenei use you could also include belfs and nbelfs, but imo orcs, goblins, dwarves and gnomes more neatly fit into what would almost certainly be a class themed around goblin and gnome engineering dedicated to the holy internal combustion engine.

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

Orcs and DID would clearly use fire elementals in theirs.

I’m not sure if I’d like that, orcs have always been depicted as extremely competent engineers who are very, very quick to adopt new technologies without the need to rely on outside forces. Hell, Blackrock Foundry and its associated logistical chain is probably the largest example of heavy industry that’s ever appeared in Warcraft and all that needed was a handful of goblins to train the orcs initially and they had it rolling in less than a generation.

[Lore-herod]

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

Engineering, and alchemy, are both pale shadows to what it would take to make a proper Tinker class.

I think it could be done, I was going to go deeper in depth with my “revamp” explanation but it became really long and I’d probably be better making a separate thread to give specifics.

But for the mech-suit example that was posted, it would probably be quite simple to create a mech-suit item that has a different primary component which determines what role it would take on/enhance. Add on a scaling damage system for items so they’re more on-par with average spells/abilities. Make the companion items like the chickens and turrets similar in output to a weak hunter/warlock pet.

And obviously more devices could be added to make it more fleshed out, like how more recipes are added in every expansion.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Guzzle-barthilas

Imo the fact that the WC3 tinker was a goblin would make it weird for there to be like twice as many Alliance races for it.

Oh, I agree mostly.

It doesn’t sit well with me that Blizzard has set us up where the races that could take advantage of it would be mostly Alliance.

@Guzzle-barthilas

I’d cut draenei and lfd. If you wanted to include archanotech like draenei use you could also include belfs and nbelfs, but imo orcs, goblins, dwarves and gnomes more neatly fit into what would almost certainly be a class themed around goblin and gnome engineering dedicated to the holy internal combustion engine.

Hmm…

I like the adding Belfs and Nightborne… Both Horde and both have magical constructs at least on par with Draenei in that setup.

Plus it’d be cool.

And yeah I definitely get the Orcs, Goblins, Gnomes Dwarves fitting into the Holy combustion engine concept and I’d be happy enough with that alone.

Honestly so long as Goblins and Gnomes get it… I think I’d live. lol

@Guzzle-barthilas

I’m not sure if I’d like that, orcs have always been depicted as extremely competent engineers who are very, very quick to adopt new technologies without the need to rely on outside forces.

Thats very fair.

Their theme could be more on the taken technologies that goblins brought them and ork’d it up a notch.

@Guzzle-barthilas

Hell, Blackrock Foundry and its associated logistical chain is probably the largest example of heavy industry that’s ever appeared in Warcraft and all that needed was a handful of goblins to train the orcs initially and they had that rolling in less than a generation.

tbf
It was the Blackrock Foundry in WoD that made me think use a fire elemental. >.>

I get that that was… lets say heretical to current Azerothian Orcish culture.

@Lore-herod

I think it could be done, I was going to go deeper in depth with my “revamp” explanation but it became really long and I’d probably be better making a separate thread to give specifics.

I definitely agree a long winded concept like that would probably be better suited to its own thread.

I just have no belief Blizzard would ever get around to making professions useful like that.

@Lore-herod

But for the mech-suit example that was posted, it would probably be quite simple to create a mech-suit item that has a different primary component which determines what role it would take on/enhance. Add on a scaling damage system for items so they’re more on-par with average spells/abilities. Make the companion items like the chickens and turrets similar in output to a weak hunter/warlock pet.

I’d say if they’re gonna put the work in, might as well do it right as a new class.

[Guzzle-barthilas]

@Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord

It was the Blackrock Foundry in WoD that made me think use a fire elemental. >.>

The fire fury forge in BRD actually didn’t have anything to do with the foundry’s operation. The fire fury powered blast furnace was used to smelt blacksteel and actually pre-dated the Iron Horde. If anything the blast furnace is an example of pre-industrialised orc technology. The actual assembly lines and the various contraptions used iron stars as their basis and tbh I’d really rather see that technology really dug into.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Guzzle-barthilas

The fire fury forge in BRD actually didn’t have anything to do with the foundry’s operation. The fire fury powered blast furnace was used to smelt blacksteel and actually pre-dated the Iron Horde. If anything the blast furnace is an example of pre-industrialised orc technology.

Oh, I was under the impression it was Iron Horde stuff, as they needed to increase production when they added that stuff, so they captured the Fire Fury.

[Guzzle-barthilas]

Well this is the flavour text for the fight. I could be totally waffling here, but it certainly implies the Blackrock Clan have been using if not this specific fury at least the idea of fury powered forges for a long time.

The Blackrock clan’s unique ability to smelt the black ore, a substance so dense that ordinary flame does not even soften it, has always been their most closely-guarded secret. Deep within the Foundry, their furnace contains a primal force as old as Draenor itself, raging within the confines of its prison as it emanates a preternatural heat.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Guzzle-barthilas

Well this is the flavour text for the fight. I could be totally waffling here, but it certainly implies the Blackrock Clan have been using if not this specific fury at least the idea of fury powered forges for a long tim

Oh wow… that really does.

I never noticed before… I just assumed since pre-mannaroth bloodening since they all worshiped the elementals (more or less) that they’d only taken the Fury itself from the Throne nearer to the Iron Horde stuff.

That was confusing I’m refering to our Orcs with mannoroth bit and the WoD ones for the Iron Horde bit…

[Guzzle-barthilas]

Yeah, it’s certainly a head scratcher.

If I had to wildly assume without any lore evidence whatsoever, the Blackrock Clan was always the most militant Clan and engaging in some dark shamanism in secret in order to give them a military advantage could easily be in their wheelhouse.

It’d be nice if they hadn’t cut half the actual orc content from WoD to appease Alliance players’ complaints in the alpha so we might get some explanation on these sorts of questions, but yolo.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Guzzle-barthilas

Yeah, it’s certainly a head scratcher.

If I had to wildly assume without any lore evidence whatsoever, the Blackrock Clan was always the most militant Clan and engaging in some dark shamanism in secret in order to give them a military advantage could easily be in their wheelhouse.

Hmm.

I could accept that but I’d be shaking my head at blizzard. Lol

@Guzzle-barthilas

It’d be nice if they hadn’t cut half the actual orc content from WoD to appease Alliance players’ complaints in the alpha so we might get some explanation on these sorts of questions, but yolo.

Ugh.

Sometimes I wish more alliance folk were invested in the Horde just as much as the Alliance.

Like yeah the Draenei were there and it’s nice to have their stuff but Draenor was an orc world… We should have held our focus there…

[Blastkrizzle-moon-guard]

@Lannisterian-tichondrius

And this is why as an LGBTQ+ person I voiced my concern and yet was still optimistic on you as a person and hoped to get to know you and wish the best for your perspective to change.

Hello,

you don’t know me but I have read your posts for the past years as a visitor. Before I get into the detail, please let me introduce myself because I think this is the proper way to go about this before you start looking for alts.

I’m an Asian playing on an European server. I started to play the game with Mists of Pandaria, you know, because of the Pandaren. As you might guess I have different perspective when it comes to the game and like I said, I have been following you and most of the regular Elf-regulars for years now. I have read most of these topics because they served a true life lesson when it comes how petty everyone of you can get.

The reason why I joined the “club” is because I felt it was the right moment to address the on-going “elf wars” from my point of view. And yes, I know how these topics go and I wish not to be derailed by the Nightborne-discussion because this is another topic for itself and has nothing to do with how most of you treat other players. I will not hold back and say it’s disappointing and embarrassing to see how players are treated because of the request of a hair color.

In short, yes, they Alliance-players deserve their legacy blond high elves due two very simple reasons: The Silver Covenant tabard and the High Elf/Quel’dorei mount. You cannot access these cosmetics on the Horde-side. I often read how similar those elves would look compared but in reality no one of you would care about this in an actual fight and you know exactly what I’m pointing to: It’s about your personal pride and investment in the game which validates the outcry.

The Pandaren community never had any troubles having an absolute identical race on both sides, so why would you bother now? Because of some unreasonable “give them a finger and they will take the hand”-gestures?
We both know why the Alliance got the new skin colorization and given how well received the Mechagnomes are, Blizzard tried their best to control the backlash on them. There was no other reason why they pushed them so suddenly out the game, given how popular straight-back trolls and fur-goblins are. And yes, I do understand your concerns about losing your “identity” but in reality you will never meet these people in Silvermoon. In fact, you also could RP as the Sunreavers in Dalaran and have a friendly competition with them and the long requested Alliance “High Elves”. And you know as well that they are associated in most mini patches in many expansions, often teased by Blizzard themselves.

It’s not a “but what get we in return”-situation. The majority of WoW-players are elves and it would benefit the Alliance in having either the requested options or giving them a true High Elf AR and relieve the Void Elves from the HE-assassination and bring some Horde-players over to the game for the sake of faction balancing. It will likely not be much but it will help in the long run to give people a valid reason to choose between human-looking figures in different proportions.

You may like it but I believe the Alliance-players deserve some happiness. And for the record, I’m okay with giving them Blood Elf hairstyles and colors but not the golden and green eyes. I would actually suggest focusing on pushing the Blood Elves runic tattoos and accessories instead denying a dying player base some fun.

The true culprit is not the person on the other screen but Ion and the developer team for mocking the Alliance players for years (“the Horde is there waiting for you”), denying an actual on-going request and then lying about it (“the new skin colors? Were always planned”). And yes, people make sometimes unreasonable comments and requests but you have to stand above this and make objectively a better call for the health of the game. Giving the Alliance-players blond elves does not doom the game but rather a player who stops playing the game.

I wish for everyone to get along as well. Show some empathy and understanding to the situation. Thank you.

[Guzzle-barthilas]

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

You cannot access these cosmetics on the Horde-side.

And you cannot access naturally coloured hair Alliance-side.

The Silver Covenant have no direct connection to void elves, why should they inform what options are available to void elves?

[Henitai-amanthul (Henitai)]

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

The Pandaren community never had any troubles having an absolute identical race on both sides, so why would you bother now?

The more this false equivalent comes up, the more it gets called out. Pandaren never belonged to a single faction before their introduction. Just because they were designed as a neutral race doesn’t automatically open the doors for homogenizing other races cross-faction. people are well within their right to criticize that kind of development.

I cant play a Vulpera on Alliance, so why should elves get anything and everything cross faction? If blizz is determined to keep faction boundaries, then keep the distinctions between them.

[Ahcirej-moon-guard (Ahcirej)]

I will only say this. The Alliance does not deserve High Elves as a playable race. No one, no where deserves something just because it is there. No Alliance players want High Elves because they are there. There is no they deserve them it is simply they want them. They want the pretty elves. They want to tell Blood elf player that Hair color doesn’t make a Blood Elf a Blood Elf. While at the same time demanding they get the hair colors. Because a High Elf isn’t a High Elf unless it can look like Alleria. If Hair color doesn’t make a belf a belf then it doesn’t make a helf a helf. So they aren’t needed they are just wanted.

(Izzabelle alt.)

[Guzzle-barthilas]

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

I have read most of these topics because they served a true life lesson when it comes how petty everyone of you can get.

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

I will not hold back and say it’s disappointing and embarrassing to see how players are treated because of the request of a hair color.

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

I often read how similar those elves would look compared but in reality no one of you would care about this in an actual fight and you know exactly what I’m pointing to: It’s about your personal pride and investment in the game which validates the outcry.

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

And yes, I do understand your concerns about losing your “identity” but in reality you will never meet these people in Silvermoon.

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

And yes, people make sometimes unreasonable comments and requests but you have to stand above this and make objectively a better call for the health of the game.

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

I wish for everyone to get along as well. Show some empathy and understanding to the situation. Thank you.

Also, this is such a weird post because it completely ignores and dismisses legitimate concerns people hold and then ends with “show some empathy”.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Blastkrizzle-moon-guard

Hello,

All these steps to go somewhere and you could have been farther standing still.

[Magnificent-wyrmrest-accord]

1 post but ill bite too. alliance never got high elves because they left the alliance and because high elves are blood elves. before you go strawmanning that ‘BlOoD ElVeS aRe High elves but not all HiGH eLves are blood elves’

well, duh. but the vast majority of high elves are blood elves meaning they are a horde race. dalaran elves are dalaran elves not alliance. there are very few alliance high elves saying anything else is bait and gaslighting

[Greatbrae-dalaran]

@Magnificent-wyrmrest-accord

dalaran elves are dalaran elves not alliance.

Everytime some one says that. I immediately remember the leader if the militant faction of “dalaran elves” present during the alliance weapon appearance quest. Very much not alliance indeed.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

SC is Alliance bound by a neutral power(the Kirin Tor) .

Not fully Alliance but Alliance aligned for sure.

They’re a weird grey area…

Sunreavers are even more complicated… Their allegiance is obviously Horde but they swore fealty to the Kirin Tor then got kicked out then returned to the blood elves then got accepted back in…

Both groups are still bound by a neutral power. At the moment.

[Greatbrae-dalaran]

It is a weird position they both hold for sure.