Void elves can look like blood elves but not vise versa

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

He also ignores the fact they received everything else they have asked for so the final piece does equate to a lot more than they’d like to admit.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Muir-kelthuzad

If those specific hair colors don’t break the themes of the race then that’s what I’m saying, those hair colors are fluid and not thematic of any given race.

It seems to me that that would depend on the race and its lore.

I wouldn’t expect a Tauren to be… lets say Night Elf green.

But to be a darker shade of Auburn red? Sure.

The void elves as they are currently are affected by the void so I can understand people not wanting to see natural coloration on them. Even with the skin tones the idea that a Void Elf is untouched by the Void seems odd given their lore.

Alleria was made differently and without Blizzard showing and stating how new ones are made we cannot assume much of anything about the process.

So we’re left with the introduction scenario. Nothing there shows a likelihood of natural hair tones. (or skin tones)

@Muir-kelthuzad

Draenei for instance already had brown/blonde/white options and their hair colors added were dark purple/green. They didn’t continue to receive the same tone of colors that already exist for them.

Which is my point. The hair colors every race received were ones they did not have - they were not simply the existing hair color spectrum. Like Blood Elves received a chocolate brown, caramel hair color alongside the unlocked DK hair colors. They didn’t continually receive different shades of Blonde or Red.

Sure, but none of those really break any mold to either of those races.

They have no lore implications.

They don’t really seem, to me anyways, to break any themes for them. Just expand them.

@Muir-kelthuzad

Hair colors added to each race were explicitly to give them a variety that wasn’t already in place. Expecting Void Elves to continue to gain purple/green/blue shades of hair color wouldn’t make sense since they already have those options available.

Yeah I agree, but that doesn’t mean they would be natural hair colors. Expansion of the Void Elf colorations by lore would suggest they’re going to be modified to a void tint at best.

(Again this is my opinion. I’m not trying to shove nothing down you throat)

@Lore-herod

Hair color isn’t a lore based issue either though…

It is though.

Blizzard has not yet implemented a system where hair color is shared across the board without limit.

They specifically limit it by what race you’re on.

@Lore-herod

I’ve showed you before how hair dye does effectively exist in the lore

Oh I know it does. But as I said just above, until that’s implemented across the board its not what Blizzard has done, nor should we expect it as an excuse.

(Also I just noticed you’re on Herod server and I ALMOST made a toon there just yesterday… lol )

@Lore-herod

I have told you before how magical infusion doesn’t always caused your body to change even a bit.

And I don’t disagree with you on that.

But I do with the Void Elves themselves. Until we have some actual lore to explain how new ones are made the only canon lore we have is in the Void Elf introduction. Alleria herself is currently unique.

Whether I think its likely or not that others are following that path or that a new ritual has been made is just an assumption.

@Lore-herod

Claiming this debate is about lore is just wrong, and I’d have a lot better time remaining civil if those that didn’t want the options to happen just admitted that it’s exclusively about visual distinction even though I disagree with it.

I don’t think it isn’t about lore.

For me at least it almost always has been. (Sometimes my own preferences do come up)

I understand feeling attacked about the visual distinction argument, though I don’t agree its an attack as much. I very much believe that Lann and others are very genuine in their concerns there.

Everyone draws their lines at different places. And while we do not have to agree, we also don’t have to let others get to us. This is about elves in an online game. One no doubt we all feel strongly for. That doesn’t mean its worth getting immensely bent out of shape over.

So lets say that you’re right and they’re exclusively against it for the visual distinction and that alone.

Why do they get to decide if you are civil or not? Should you not make that choice on your own?

I very much don’t agree with Muir here. I’ve disagreed with Lann and Ariel and Naughty in many cases.

I cannot stand Cezol.

Yet here we are having a fairly relaxed discussion about our views. (ok less Cezol and me I just ignored him instead. But even that is a matter of trying to keep civil.)

You cannot control others. Keep yourself in check and others will follow in discussion. Its worked for me for more than a year.

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

@Greatbrae-dalaran

I wouldn’t say it’s a lie, they have a basis for their complaint since the VE model is practically the same rig as BE’s

It’s not “practically”. A VE is a Blood Elf with a switched texture and a tentacle “wig”.

@Muir-kelthuzad

I don’t think there’s anything that’s wrong with trying to work within the frameworks Blizzard is allowing

I like how you’re acting as if the remodel for HEs was always unanimously supported when it was something that many of you only reluctantly agreed to while fighting tooth and nail about how HEs should still look the same on the side.

So don’t give me the whole “Well, we’re just working with what Blizz is giving us”, while you’re trying to justify bleaching off the only thing that essentially makes VEs distinct because you want to turn them into your personal coping mechanism.

VEs are VEs, don’t try to turn them into something they’re not.

@Muir-kelthuzad

Even Forsaken received Black/White/Blonde/Brown hair color customization, when previously they had none.

Don’t you dare drag Forsaken into your flimsy strawmen.

Acting as if you got an argument there while Forsaken look absolutely nothing like an Alliance race no matter what customizations you pick for them… I swear…

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Lore-herod

now you insult me for no reason

Don’t you like any post that blatantly insults opposing voices against HEs?

I fail to see how someone saying you’re wrong is an insult though unless it’s an ego thing.

If you don’t disregard peoples voices, and argue in good faith it makes for better discussions.

[Izzabelle-draka (Izzabelle)]

I’ve come to realize the sad fact that according to some it is never important to the people losing something as it is to those who stand to gain something. Blood Elves losing something doesn’t matter to them, they only care about what they can gain. Thus Hair color not important to us, (although it is, we’re just not allowed to feel that way without being called gate keepers, or part of the Lann squad. ) exceptionally important to them.

[Nicodemùs-argent-dawn (Nicodemùs)]

Just out of curiosity… if Blizzard does end up giving Void Elves a few natural hair colors (let’s say one shade each of brown, black, white, blonde and red), and assuming no other lore additions added to Void Elves (in game or out), what lore implications do think we could infer from that decision? Or should we not infer any sort of lore implications by that choice?

I’m not getting involved in the arguments being had here, just curious about your thoughts in particular on the matter of what sort of implications natural hair colors added to Void Elves may have in regards to the lore.

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Nicodemùs-argent-dawn

Just out of curiosity… if Blizzard does end up giving Void Elves a few natural hair colors (let’s say one shade each of brown, black, white, blonde and red), and assuming no other lore additions added to Void Elves (in game or out), what lore implications do think we could infer from that decision? Or should we not infer any sort of lore implications by that choice?

I see it as them trying to give High Elf fans options to RP in general.

Blizzard is of late more interested in allowing a wider range of such things it seems. They’re moving away from the idea that we’re “Just a human from Stormwind” and more towards “you’re a human of the Alliance” it seems to me.

While I wouldn’t be able to say that the skin tones and hair colors are explained in the lore I wont be unhappy for them to be there in general nor would I go around telling anyone their character story is wrong.

What we do in our own headcanons isn’t a debate.

So… I guess I wouldn’t see it as having Lore implications in that case. Just options for those who have long wanted that option.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

@Lore-herod

It is just over hair though. No one is asking for the eyes.

Some DO ask for those dude -heck you were RIGHT HERE when one of your “new buddies” considered taking stuff from the Forsaken Horde was A-OK… and you said nothing, how… dissapointing. And expected I suppose.

@Muir-kelthuzad

Not sure why those who oppose all this ‘copying’ aren’t throwing any ire at Blizzard but instead towards the players.

Oh, no don´t be mistaken!! I´m 100% aware this shtshow happened only because the devs tried -as usual- to get their cake in the cheapest way possible. The players can barely post an opinion in these platform or any other media, but nothing else.

@Muir-kelthuzad

A new race won’t be coming so only customizations can fit. Even if people do feel that VE are too close to BEs, Blizzard already gave their opinion on the matter by showing that HE is going to be shared between them,

Yes, bolded part Is correct. But then again, such words mean THAT is were the copy/pasting issue should stop. The artistic design for “general” stuff like tattoos should be probably DIFFERENT between both races precisely cause they are the most susceptible to make the other irrelevant as per visual aesthetics are concerned. To say “share the runic tattoos and only let somo colors available on each one” for example IS ridiculously limiting by itself, the devs would benefit from taking different artistic approaches with each race.

Sommand made some pretty good mockups for “runic tattos” for Velves that are inherently DIFFERENT to the classic “runic tattoo” depicted in TBC gamebox (the classic ones are more similar to scarifications). This could be a way to put the “same” customization option on both races BUT made them look different enough people don´t feel they are the same damned stuff just limited by colors… heck, this way none of the elf races HAVE to get stuff limited by color.

Same approach regarding “Farstrider” tattoos… you guys can get a more “generic elf” trope design like Alleria got, the Belves can get more “bold /tribal” designs similar to the actual warpaint used by Orcs and Trolls (they are after all the elf group that have had interacted with these races for a decade and counting… something must stick after this long term interaction, don´t you think?).

@Muir-kelthuzad

I’m operating under the idea that it’s normal to keep asking for more options and that this subtext of ‘you already got a lot, stop asking for more’ is simply ridiculous as I do not see these same people going to other thread races that have received customization options and badgering them to stop asking for more of any particular thing.

The key part is how the devs EXPLAIN those customizations… the reasoning behind those has to be supported AT THE VERY MINIMUM in the lore, cause if they don´t do that we will start to see Nelves asking for phoenixes or sun motifs or Velves asking for Lightforged options taken by the LF Draenei and any other really stupid takes (I mean sorry not sorry, but saying San´layn should roll Velf after the expac that depicted the Alliance killing those San´layn working for the Horde isn´t exactly a suggestion made taking the lore into account).

@Muir-kelthuzad

That’s a nice joke, thanks for the laugh. They were the most criticized Allied Race released due to their shallowness of lore, which to this day hasn’t been expanded on.

Not shallowness per se… devs simply were too cowardly to use actual Alliance High elf toons and concocted the whole idiotic “Belves that suddenly hated the Horde and decided persecuting the magical research of the worst traitor to the nation. Also, after joining the enemy side they STILL say the do everything cause they care for Quel´thalas” idea.

I guess they were afraid how hypocritical the High elves would look if they ran to accept elves dwelling with corrupting magics after how much they criticized the Belves in the lore for exactly this behaviour -taking questionable actions from the Helves PoV-. Hilariously, the Helves still ended up looking likemassive hypocrites cause they still accepted with open arms people that acted just like the Belves acted a decade before, but worse.

@Muir-kelthuzad

Reason I am super confident brown/blonde/black/white hair color will come to Void Elves is because out of the 22 playable races in the game, 21 of them have either some or all of those hair colors.

Should we expect then “crazy” pink/green/purple hair colors for the Belves, Humans, Dwarves et al, then? Cause basically your take is “every hair color will be shared”.

I mean, fair is fair after all.

@Cezol-silvermoon

Only people reaching are the people doing their mental gymnastics to pretend regular hair styles and colors aren’t possible for void elves because of your “feelings”.

Oh, they are perfectly possible. some of us just saying it probably should stop at it. I really really dislike the idea of having to continue to content with you people even after THAT is given to you. I don´t want you guys asking for stupid stuff for your side like the “undead looking” options, not at least until you guys figure an actual intelligent way to justify those.

@Cezol-silvermoon

No no, please, read the rest of it, it actually covers the point fairly well.

But everyone knows you only ever read and crop the parts for your sad “gotchas”.

There’s a reason your side continues to lose this customization race, you only ever argue in bad faith.

I didn´t see you condemning stupid takes like Fel green eyes for Velves or “San´layn” for Velves, dude.

Your side is just as bad, so kindly reconsider your words cause me thinks the “liar” in this stance is not us.

@Nicodemùs-argent-dawn

Just out of curiosity… if Blizzard does end up giving Void Elves a few natural hair colors (let’s say one shade each of brown, black, white, blonde and red), and assuming no other lore additions added to Void Elves (in game or out), what lore implications do think we could infer from that decision? Or should we not infer any sort of lore implications by that choice?

It will depend in how they add them. If it´s only the colors WITH some sort of degrading that ends up in tentacles, maybe we could speculate the Wayfarers ARE trying to become Velves. If it´s regular hair colors with NO tentacles, probably just assume those are regular Helves and that´s it.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Izzabelle-draka

or part of the Lann squad.

Which is still so funny to me for two reasons, one because they make that claim like they aren’t here everyday and or other forums (often taking it too personally too as we’ve seen). And the denying of what’s been done already for them as part of what needs to be considered in what is to come is the epitome of what have you done for us lately.

And two they disregard that I used to advocate in their favor because they want to concentrate on what they still want not what they have which again ties into the what have you done for us lately thing, but I find it funny I have such a target to be constantly identified.

[Izzabelle-draka (Izzabelle)]

@Nicodemùs-argent-dawn

Just out of curiosity… if Blizzard does end up giving Void Elves a few natural hair colors (let’s say one shade each of brown, black, white, blonde and red),

If you don’t mind me answering I would say that in the long run it wouldn’t really bother me. I’m not really personally against them getting natural Hair Colors. However I do think those who value visual distinction have just as much rights to have their wishes heard and listened to by Blizzard as those wanting to replicate it in some form. If it happens it happens, I wasn’t upset about losing the skin tones I was upset over the crappy customizations we got that really didn’t reflect in anyway Blood elf lore, as some cheap form of compensation.

[Naughtymoon-proudmoore (Naughtymoon)]

Like I said before I’ve totally got this, lets go Lann squad, followed by 4 claps.

[Nicodemùs-argent-dawn (Nicodemùs)]

If Blizzard did add the aforementioned hair colors… do you think they should add lore explaining them? Or should they simply be left as RP tools?

I’m torn between wanting lore explaining those options as new recruits joining up via a process similar to Allerias… but on the other hand there’s something to be said about having a blank canvas upon which to write your own canon.

[Izzabelle-draka (Izzabelle)]

We have been friends for a while I don’t mind being part of the Lann Squad

I understand the desire for visual distinction in a game where we have factions and visuals are one of the deciding factors when choosing a race for many.

I understand wanting to play the race that you have always wanted on the side that you enjoy playing on

I understand not wanting to see your favorite race high jacked by another group

I understand that Nightborne really need some major work

I’m a really understanding person, Unless someone tries to tell be what I think then i became a sarcastic witch.

[Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood (Tarrok)]

Isn’t clap clap clapclapcalp the traditional follow up to “Let’s go ______”?

[Cezol-silvermoon]

@Ariël-drakkari

I didn´t see you condemning stupid takes like Fel green eyes for Velves or “San´layn” for Velves, dude.

You also didn’t see me supporting it, this isn’t a point you can use against me.

That being said, there’s 0 reason for Void elves to gain either color.

@Ariël-drakkari

Oh, they are perfectly possible. some of us just saying it probably should stop at it.

That’s literally the last thing, it completes the high elf fantasy on the Alliance.

Anything extra is just that, extra.

[Naughtymoon-proudmoore (Naughtymoon)]

Yes, that was the whole point. Haha. I used to do cheerleading so I could totally come up with a cheer for it if needed.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Naughtymoon-proudmoore

Like I said before I’ve totally got this

@Izzabelle-draka

We have been friends for a while

[Nicodemùs-argent-dawn (Nicodemùs)]

I can totally understand being upset over the rather lackluster offerings Blood Elves got. I was upset by that as well (I play both sides). As to people who value distinction, I agree with you. They have every right to voice their opinions.

My question to Fen was more about lore implications (if any) adding those hair colors might have for Void Elves than anything else.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

@Lannisterian-tichondrius

Which is still so funny to me for two reasons, one because they make that claim like they aren’t here everyday and or other forums (often taking it too personally too as we’ve seen).

Personally, I switch from here to SF. I may have caused a little bit of anguish in SF yesterday thanks to a lore clarification involving the “reasons” (canon wise? nonexistant as per current lore) the Nelves had to go spy and overall harrass the Belves in the Ghostlands.

You would be surprised on how many Nelf fans ignored the clarifications made in the “Rise of the Horde” novel regarding TBC´s leveling timeline.

@Izzabelle-draka

If it happens it happens, I wasn’t upset about losing the skin tones I was upset over the crappy customizations we got that really didn’t reflect in anyway Blood elf lore, as some cheap form of compensation.

Tell me about it, I just happened to link a post today regarding the TBC gamebox (a page from Blizz official forums) AND I just figured out that in the top part of that page, official art DEPICTS for the second time a Blood elf with facial scars. W T F, where are MY toon´s scars, Blizzard? Your very freaking art has it!!!.

@Nicodemùs-argent-dawn

If Blizzard did add the aforementioned hair colors… do you think they should add lore explaining them? Or should they simply be left as RP tools?

They won´t add lore explanations unless those are required for some story development… i mean just yesterday we were discussing in SF Danuser´s interview in whch he literally reinforced the notion that “Chronicles” are JUST merely the PoV of the titans and basically NOTHING is 100% certain as far as lore events are concerned.

In short: the current lore dev team WILL leave their options as open as possible.

@Cezol-silvermoon

You also didn’t see me supporting it, this isn’t a point you can use against me.

That being said, there’s 0 reason for Void elves to gain either color.

Good to see we both agree AT LEAST on that.

But you know what they say about “keeping quiet”… the one that says nothing gives his/her silent approval / agreement. Next time you see stuff like this, please DO comment. Cause current Blizz design team is certainly NOT smart enough not disciplined enough to consult their own freaking lore.

[Nicodemùs-argent-dawn (Nicodemùs)]

@Ariël-drakkari

They won´t add lore explanations unless those are required for some story development… i mean just yesterday we were discussing in SF Danuser´s interview in whch he literally reinforced the notion that “Chronicles” are JUST merely the PoV of the titans and basically NOTHING is 100% certain as far as lore events are concerned.

In short: the current lore dev team WILL leave their options as open as possible.

That’s a great point!